great comment that gets to the point in simple terms.

You're all ignoring the effects of HRT, of course NBA players with their strength would be like Wilt in the WNBA lol, but HRT causes a significant amount of loss in strength that would change that.

After HRT, transwomen are closer to cis women than to cis men when it comes to strength.

Sure

i wouldn't have posted if i wasn't.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

that's what forums are usually for 👍

Interesting

it is a fair point, i think following that logic to its natural conclusion though suggests to me that sport should be split on physiology rather than sex.

Anecdote brained mfs itt

I'm not entirely convinced that HRT reverses the effect of male puberty, as well as the structural differences that presumably exist from birth.

I could be wrong as I'm not well-read on the literature. That being said, I don't think it would be sufficient to show that HRT lowers muscle strength. For example, someone a few pages ago pointed out that women are born with smaller airways and lung volume- how would HRT rectify something like this?

Getting treatment for cancer and transitioning aren't personal choices lol they're mostly about survival

I’m pretty neutral on this but it is interesting that PEDs are generally overlooked in sport whereas being trans isn’t

The point is, you can’t boil a male human down to their testosterone or muscle size or height or weight

Can cis women not cite having to deal with a period every month for years as like a psychological disadvantage and or potentially a physical one if their competition falls during their cycle? Or even their practice? Or I guess just the fact they have to deal with it at all compared to ppl that don’t

It can affect their mood, appetite, etc etc which also affect performance

And if you were to do the math to figure out the differences; you would be drawing a line in the sand and saying only certain trans ppl that meet a certain requirement of not being too genetically advantaged can compete but that would just put you back at the start of this thread

There are certain attributes ofc that couldn't be rectified like height, probably long volume I assume, but many of them are pretty close to that like with strength.

The scientific literature is pretty limited, but this literature review gives a good oversight on most of what's known so far:

bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865

When it comes to strength this part is pretty interesting:

Now you may read this and think oh well then trans women after HRT are closer in strength to cis men than cis women, but that's not the case because strength levels among trans women pre-HRT are also lower:

That compiled lower amount of strength makes them closer to cis women than cis men, which is also seen to be the case in practice:

What's interesting here is that transwomen and cis women are completely equal when it comes to situps and pushups, but in running they still have an advantage (how much that is I haven't looked further into). The overall athletic advantage is not the same across all attributes, and so the cutoff for the point in HRT transwomen could participate should then probably be different for different types of sports.

The amount of advantages transwomen have compared to cis men is a multifaceted question with limited scientific literature and a lot of politicized propaganda supporting one narrative, so I'm not surprised when other posters itt who have probably only watched a Joe Rogan clip on the subject come with these dumbass takes

everyone that committed suicide would tell you that survival is a personal choice. If they could

OK ?

So survival is a personal choice. You cited having cancer and going to get treated for it as a survival thing as if bc it helps you survive that that makes it any less of a personal choice

The decision to participate in sports at all is also a personal choice, but then that is getting too meta

What's the point of this discussion lol

He never stays on topic best to just ignore lol

Lol maybe read about how a male body developes during puberty.

LMAO YOU dum

Stfu

That everyone has to make sacrifices and life isn’t fair

Trans athletes need to decide what matters more to them.. the sport they want to compete in, or their own personal identity.

And once they know, make decisions based on that

I'm not even gonna entertain this s***

Describe to me how it got anything to do with transphobia. Yall just out here playing with big words and inflating the meaning of them.

Also it’s a physical sport. I think you’re supposed to be ”fit” if you want to win in a sports competition. Lol