Jun 20, 2022·1 reply
BomboklaTT· editedDescribe to me how it got anything to do with transphobia. Yall just out here playing with big words and inflating the meaning of them.
Also it’s a physical sport. I think you’re supposed to be ”fit” if you want to win in a sports competition. Lol
It's segregation for trans people based on the fact they are trans people, it's transphobic
Jun 20, 2022·2 replies
KalamariFromPartyThat everyone has to make sacrifices and life isn’t fair
Trans athletes need to decide what matters more to them.. the sport they want to compete in, or their own personal identity.
And once they know, make decisions based on that
Are you seriously implying someone should live through body dysmorphia so that they can prioritize playing a sport…..
Ive seen some stupid ass s*** on this site before. But this s*** sir, takes the cake.
- Jun 20, 2022·1 replyQ3D
It's segregation for trans people based on the fact they are trans people, it's transphobic
Why they can’t participate in a league of their own?
- Jun 20, 2022·1 replyBomboklaTT
Why they can’t participate in a league of their own?
Maybe because they aren't numerous enough? And that nobody would really be interested in that league?
Jun 20, 2022·2 repliesThreads like this are never productive
Any productive discussion on this topic requires people to actually be able to think critically and know how to read scientific literature and that already disqualifies most of u mfs
Then there's also the insane amount of reactionary propaganda that use anecdotes and people's general attitudes about trans people
- Jun 20, 2022Scratchin Mamba
There are certain attributes ofc that couldn't be rectified like height, probably long volume I assume, but many of them are pretty close to that like with strength.
The scientific literature is pretty limited, but this literature review gives a good oversight on most of what's known so far:
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
When it comes to strength this part is pretty interesting:
Now you may read this and think oh well then trans women after HRT are closer in strength to cis men than cis women, but that's not the case because strength levels among trans women pre-HRT are also lower:
That compiled lower amount of strength makes them closer to cis women than cis men, which is also seen to be the case in practice:
What's interesting here is that transwomen and cis women are completely equal when it comes to situps and pushups, but in running they still have an advantage (how much that is I haven't looked further into). The overall athletic advantage is not the same across all attributes, and so the cutoff for the point in HRT transwomen could participate should then probably be different for different types of sports.
The amount of advantages transwomen have compared to cis men is a multifaceted question with limited scientific literature and a lot of politicized propaganda supporting one narrative, so I'm not surprised when other posters itt who have probably only watched a Joe Rogan clip on the subject come with these dumbass takes
@02Shaq try reading this and also the article itself (mostly the discussion if u want a general overview)
About the effects of HRT
- Jun 20, 2022·1 replyDankmustard Mobile
Are you seriously implying someone should live through body dysmorphia so that they can prioritize playing a sport…..
Ive seen some stupid ass s*** on this site before. But this s*** sir, takes the cake.
Not what I said at all if you read my other posts
I said whatever s***they were born as is the one they should compete against, regardless of what hormones or surgery they go through in their lifetime. That doesn’t mean they have body dysmorphia. Idk what people have to do/go through to not have to feel body dysmorphia but I don’t think a female being in a locker room of males counts as that.
And it’s honestly disingenuous for trans people to pull the “I am a woman” card bc they know damn well that the word “woman” meant something else back when these rules & policies were put into place compared to now
Back then, when they said “woman” it was just a placeholder for “born biologically female”.. and even though it’s not accurate to use the word woman like that anymore, if you know that’s what they meant back then why act like you fit into the category they were talking about due to a “translation” error (different meaning of words over time is akin to different languages) - Jun 20, 2022
Don't even know why this was a hard situation to settle 💀.
No reason to be offended by this, they did the tests and trials, came back with the evidence, and even the bans have caveats.
- Jun 20, 2022Q3D
Maybe because they aren't numerous enough? And that nobody would really be interested in that league?
You could say the same thing about female/women leagues when they were first starting
Jun 20, 2022Scratchin MambaThere are certain attributes ofc that couldn't be rectified like height, probably long volume I assume, but many of them are pretty close to that like with strength.
The scientific literature is pretty limited, but this literature review gives a good oversight on most of what's known so far:
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
When it comes to strength this part is pretty interesting:
Now you may read this and think oh well then trans women after HRT are closer in strength to cis men than cis women, but that's not the case because strength levels among trans women pre-HRT are also lower:
That compiled lower amount of strength makes them closer to cis women than cis men, which is also seen to be the case in practice:
What's interesting here is that transwomen and cis women are completely equal when it comes to situps and pushups, but in running they still have an advantage (how much that is I haven't looked further into). The overall athletic advantage is not the same across all attributes, and so the cutoff for the point in HRT transwomen could participate should then probably be different for different types of sports.
The amount of advantages transwomen have compared to cis men is a multifaceted question with limited scientific literature and a lot of politicized propaganda supporting one narrative, so I'm not surprised when other posters itt who have probably only watched a Joe Rogan clip on the subject come with these dumbass takes
So if I'm understanding correctly, it's saying that despite hormone therapy only eliciting small reductions in strength, hormone naive trans women already exhibited less strength on average so the addition of hormone therapy was enough to align them with the average woman.
Definitely a thought-provoking result. Still, to make it really rigorous and cover edge cases, I think you would have to show how the biological component associated with being trans predictably shapes your physiology to be more in line with women.
Or something like that, at least. I'm definitely very open to being wrong.
I think the hang up for many people is that this discussion is naturally leading us to the idea of quantifying a person's physiological potential. The ramifications for simpler sports that are basically just proxy measures for different aspects of this potential (i.e. sprinting) would be pretty huge.
Imagine if a trans kid takes a test and finds out that they fall right at the very edge of the physiological distribution associated with female sprinters. They would immediately know that they are capable of beating the womens' record, which takes away the allure and seeming indeterminism of these sports in the eyes of the public, even if it makes perfect sense to you and I.
No one wants to learn just how much their life is shaped by factors outside their control, IG.
Nort 💫Jun 20, 2022·1 reply
GKMC2 years is nowhere near enough to make a significant difference to level playing field.
there has never been a level playing field. testosterone and estrogen still widely vary in all men or all women competition.
- Jun 20, 2022·1 reply
Some folks try so hard to be woke that they end up going against common sense
Idk how anyone has an issue with this ban
- Jun 20, 2022·2 repliesNort
there has never been a level playing field. testosterone and estrogen still widely vary in all men or all women competition.
The level playing field is literally the fact that they are the same s***
I was born a certain way same as you were.
Everything before and after that is basically “unfair”, from who your parents were to your socioeconomic status to the food you were fed growing up etc etcBut the s***is still even. So if you take that away then you have nothing
- Nort 💫Jun 20, 2022·1 replyKalamariFromParty
The level playing field is literally the fact that they are the same s***
I was born a certain way same as you were.
Everything before and after that is basically “unfair”, from who your parents were to your socioeconomic status to the food you were fed growing up etc etcBut the s***is still even. So if you take that away then you have nothing
How does being the same s***“level the playing field”?
Jun 20, 2022·1 replyQ3D
Off topic but I was just watching a vid on how BAYC NFTS are tied to Nazism lmao
- Nort 💫Jun 20, 2022Jihyo
Some folks try so hard to be woke that they end up going against common sense
Idk how anyone has an issue with this ban
common sense = I’m too lazy to think and appeal only to intuition
- Jun 20, 2022·1 replyNort
How does being the same s***“level the playing field”?
It reduces the severity of the differences because the sexes are naturally clustered together in terms of athleticism.
If I'm a top percentile male athlete, I'm rare but not unheard of. If I transition into a woman, I immediately become a generational talent. The degree of difference is what matters, not the mere existence of it.
- Nort 💫Jun 20, 2022·2 repliescoltrup
It reduces the severity of the differences because the sexes are naturally clustered together in terms of athleticism.
If I'm a top percentile male athlete, I'm rare but not unheard of. If I transition into a woman, I immediately become a generational talent. The degree of difference is what matters, not the mere existence of it.
Fair point. My main problem is the regression in trans-rights. If we want to level the playing field more accurately, wouldn’t it make sense to divide leagues amongst hormonal levels? A trans women surely can compete fairly against cis women of a similar hormonal makeup.
- Jun 20, 2022·1 replyNort
Fair point. My main problem is the regression in trans-rights. If we want to level the playing field more accurately, wouldn’t it make sense to divide leagues amongst hormonal levels? A trans women surely can compete fairly against cis women of a similar hormonal makeup.
I touched on this in my reply to someone else above, but I think the public would be averse to trying to objectively quantify athleticism and sort people accordingly. Although I agree that it makes sense if you take these discussions to their logical conclusion.
- Nort 💫Jun 20, 2022coltrup
I touched on this in my reply to someone else above, but I think the public would be averse to trying to objectively quantify athleticism and sort people accordingly. Although I agree that it makes sense if you take these discussions to their logical conclusion.
seems as though we’ve reached an agreement.
- Jun 20, 2022·1 replyNort
Fair point. My main problem is the regression in trans-rights. If we want to level the playing field more accurately, wouldn’t it make sense to divide leagues amongst hormonal levels? A trans women surely can compete fairly against cis women of a similar hormonal makeup.
You have to realize any additional class you add has to exist all the way down to the amateur level too. So basically every high school athlete would have to get a blood test for their hormone levels before even competing. That's just very expensive
- Jun 20, 2022·2 replies
I have the answer. Make new leagues for certain sports where it is intergender. So any gender would be welcome.
- Jun 20, 2022·1 replyScratchin Mamba
Threads like this are never productive
Any productive discussion on this topic requires people to actually be able to think critically and know how to read scientific literature and that already disqualifies most of u mfs
Then there's also the insane amount of reactionary propaganda that use anecdotes and people's general attitudes about trans people
I pointed out the swimmer shorty that transitioned still losing to ciswomen after HRT( since the topic was about swimming) and niggas told me she lost on purpose to throw the public off her trail.
Like folks gonna think what they want man lol