Apr 22, 2022
plantsyeah and they do it because it's a sign of power and prosperity. it's been f***ing fetishized by the west to eat a f*** ton of meat
- plants 🌻Apr 22, 2022·1 reply
Scratchin MambaMy point is that people in poorer countries also buy meat from grocery stores or markets and it's not just the elites that do so
And yeah there's an obvious economic obstacle to worry about food ethics for people who are barely making ends meet
But you said 90% don't buy from grocers? If the elites do and the poor do...sounds like about 90% lol
Apr 22, 2022·2 repliesplantsthe commodification of a life is some hyper imperialist s*** and it blows me away how hard some of y'all cap for it
You aren't changing any of that by not eating a s***ty hamburger that gives you heart disease. You aren't liberating the factory farm. You are putting different things in your shopping cart. Do not delude yourself and divide people this way.
- Apr 22, 2022·1 replykrishna bound
food ethics debates are cool but can we talk about how over the past like several weeks there's been massive destructions of like legit every major food processing plant in the US like one after another, and it's like virtually all plants which happen to deal with organic foods
4/21 - "unidentified plane" crashes into idaho potato plant
https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/nation-world/national/article260423897.html4/19 - fire destroys azure standard hq (biggest organic distributor in the US)
https://www.columbiagorgenews.com/news/fire-destroys-azure-standard-headquarter-facility/article_7df4657c-c03e-11ec-a8c2-5f88e266c6db.html4/14 - fire at salinas food processing plant
https://abc7news.com/taylor-farms-fire-salinas-evacuation-shelter-in-place-california-ammonia-explosion-risk/11747214/4/12 - 16 hour fire at conway beef & pork plant in NH
https://www.wmur.com/article/crews-battled-fire-16-hours-conway-new-hampshire-41222/39707759?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot4/1 - fire at fresh onion packing plant in south texas
https://www.producebluebook.com/2022/04/01/rio-freshs-onion-warehouse-damaged-in-fire/#this isn't even all of them
there's been like 2-4 of these a week since mid-february 
Food wars
- plants 🌻Apr 22, 2022krishna bound
the known hyper-imperialists of asia
imperial influence strong
- Apr 22, 2022·1 replyplants
But you said 90% don't buy from grocers? If the elites do and the poor do...sounds like about 90% lol
You said that 90% of the people who buy meat from grocery stores are from the first world and privileged, that's what i disagreed with
- plants 🌻Apr 22, 2022·1 replyMango
You aren't changing any of that by not eating a s***ty hamburger that gives you heart disease. You aren't liberating the factory farm. You are putting different things in your shopping cart. Do not delude yourself and divide people this way.
so because i can't do something perfectly to the highest degree i shouldn't at all? better not try and make any positive changes at all then, in any way, it's just a waste of time
Apr 22, 2022krishna boundfood ethics debates are cool but can we talk about how over the past like several weeks there's been massive destructions of like legit every major food processing plant in the US like one after another, and it's like virtually all plants which happen to deal with organic foods
4/21 - "unidentified plane" crashes into idaho potato plant
https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/nation-world/national/article260423897.html4/19 - fire destroys azure standard hq (biggest organic distributor in the US)
https://www.columbiagorgenews.com/news/fire-destroys-azure-standard-headquarter-facility/article_7df4657c-c03e-11ec-a8c2-5f88e266c6db.html4/14 - fire at salinas food processing plant
https://abc7news.com/taylor-farms-fire-salinas-evacuation-shelter-in-place-california-ammonia-explosion-risk/11747214/4/12 - 16 hour fire at conway beef & pork plant in NH
https://www.wmur.com/article/crews-battled-fire-16-hours-conway-new-hampshire-41222/39707759?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot4/1 - fire at fresh onion packing plant in south texas
https://www.producebluebook.com/2022/04/01/rio-freshs-onion-warehouse-damaged-in-fire/#this isn't even all of them
there's been like 2-4 of these a week since mid-february Wtf
- Apr 22, 2022Yuzzy
Food wars
doomsday hoarders won
- plants 🌻Apr 22, 2022·1 replyScratchin Mamba
You said that 90% of the people who buy meat from grocery stores are from the first world and privileged, that's what i disagreed with
yeah and i ain't s***ting on the global poor for barely getting by and buying meat. i meant I'm s***tin on the first world privileged folks who could easily make the change. little misunderstanding my bad
- plants 🌻Apr 22, 2022·1 replyMango
You aren't changing any of that by not eating a s***ty hamburger that gives you heart disease. You aren't liberating the factory farm. You are putting different things in your shopping cart. Do not delude yourself and divide people this way.
stop abdicating your personal responsibility
- Apr 22, 2022plants
yeah and i ain't s***ting on the global poor for barely getting by and buying meat. i meant I'm s***tin on the first world privileged folks who could easily make the change. little misunderstanding my bad
Yeah i feel u and i don't necessarily disagree w that
- Apr 22, 2022·1 replyplants
so because i can't do something perfectly to the highest degree i shouldn't at all? better not try and make any positive changes at all then, in any way, it's just a waste of time
You are projecting so hard lol. No, you're the one shaming people for not being perfect. I'm telling you that your consumerism is not politics.
- plants 🌻Apr 22, 2022·1 replyMango
You are projecting so hard lol. No, you're the one shaming people for not being perfect. I'm telling you that your consumerism is not politics.
it's not about being perfect not even a little bit, that's where you are projecting man
despite being a hardline abolishinist i still preach a reduction of meat and dairy. when ppl day "oh i could never be vegan cuz cheese" i just say go vegetarian then. i am all about steps in the right direction.
- Apr 22, 2022·1 replyplants
stop abdicating your personal responsibility
Your personal responsibility won't solve systemic issues. These animals are bred to be slaughtered and can't survive outside of captivity. They wouldn't even exist were it not for their commodification. Can we solve that on a personal dietary level? By what, shaming people? No? Then what are we doing? Feel good about yourself for your commitment but don't mistake that for politics. It's not.
- plants 🌻Apr 22, 2022plants
And by the way, meat isn't accessible to a large part of the world either and it has devastating effects, but not because it's some essential food.
Not sure if you were aware but as of 10 years ago 82% of starving children lived in countries where food was fed to animals, and the animals were eaten by western countries. But I'm sure muuuuch has changed in the last 10 years or so.
Sources:
"Improving Child Nutrition: The achievable imperative for global progress". UNICEF. April 2013 "Livestock production index". The World Bank II "Global livestock production systems". Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations. Rome 2011
when s*** like this is fact idk how you can say that at least to a large degree, meat isn't privileged.
- Apr 22, 2022·1 replyplants
it's not about being perfect not even a little bit, that's where you are projecting man
despite being a hardline abolishinist i still preach a reduction of meat and dairy. when ppl day "oh i could never be vegan cuz cheese" i just say go vegetarian then. i am all about steps in the right direction.
what he's saying is that no form of responsible consumerism is going to change a fundamentally corrupt system, as the origin of the conditions of things like factory farming are not derivative of individual choice, it's derivative of the overarching global capitalist system - taking responsible steps may be noble, but it's not meaningful enough in a wider sense to actually combat the system facilitating these problems. It's because of that that it's nonsensical to blame or look down on others for choices like that within the system if you're coming at it from any perspective tied to economics or systematic issues, as it only serves to divide people who otherwise should be predisposed to being allied against such
- plants 🌻Apr 22, 2022·1 replyMango
Your personal responsibility won't solve systemic issues. These animals are bred to be slaughtered and can't survive outside of captivity. They wouldn't even exist were it not for their commodification. Can we solve that on a personal dietary level? By what, shaming people? No? Then what are we doing? Feel good about yourself for your commitment but don't mistake that for politics. It's not.
u telling me ag gag laws ain't political. that methane production on par with the entire natural gas industry isn't political. that the fact that there is a disproportionate number of hog facilities located near communities of color and low income communities isn't political man stfu
Source on the hogs:
Macneil, Caeleigh "Hog waste threatens North Carolina's rural poor". The (Duke) Chronicle. March 28, 2016 - plants 🌻Apr 22, 2022·1 replykrishna bound
what he's saying is that no form of responsible consumerism is going to change a fundamentally corrupt system, as the origin of the conditions of things like factory farming are not derivative of individual choice, it's derivative of the overarching global capitalist system - taking responsible steps may be noble, but it's not meaningful enough in a wider sense to actually combat the system facilitating these problems. It's because of that that it's nonsensical to blame or look down on others for choices like that within the system if you're coming at it from any perspective tied to economics or systematic issues, as it only serves to divide people who otherwise should be predisposed to being allied against such
i haven't blamed or shamed anyone, not personally. I've just been posting sourced facts supporting my advocacy towards a more vegan lifestyle across the board.
what else am I supposed to do as one lowly consumer man. i can't create systemic changes in a blink so i just do local activism and post s*** like this every now and then.
it's better than just throwing my hands up and contributing to the system.
- Apr 22, 2022·1 replyScratchin Mamba
That's fs partly true but definitely not all, people from non-western countries have their own culturally informed views on meat consumption and they were definitely not all products of colonialism
To add on to this one of the main things that promote meat eating in culture is religion.
Growing up in a Ethiopian christian orthodox household I was always told as a young kid that animals were brought on this planet by god for our survival, that's pretty deeply rooted lol, and of course you got many religious/cultural customs that involve eating meat. And of course none of this is due to colonialism because Ethiopia was never colonized and adopted christianity before any European country did.
Funnily enough tho my mom later became a vegetarian tho, and everytime she tells somebody who's Ethiopian she doesn't eat meat they're absolutely dumbfounded
What this also means is that when you're promoting veganism, if you wanna reach certain communities you're gonna have to be careful that they won't perceive it as just another part of westernization and taking away from their culture, which is in itself ofc a very real thing. Like here in the Netherlands there was some discussiom about certain practices in slaughtering and it was quickly turned into a culture war issue with muslim immigrants. Tbh a lot of grillpilled fellas with immigrant background already see veganism as a whole as some goofy western bullshit so that's also def smth to think about @plants
- Apr 22, 2022·1 replyplants
i haven't blamed or shamed anyone, not personally. I've just been posting sourced facts supporting my advocacy towards a more vegan lifestyle across the board.
what else am I supposed to do as one lowly consumer man. i can't create systemic changes in a blink so i just do local activism and post s*** like this every now and then.
it's better than just throwing my hands up and contributing to the system.
Being combative about a point like tying privilege to food choice rather than economics isn't helping anything. Obviously no one can create systematic change themselves but that's why he (and others here) are saying that it's because of that you shouldn't let advocacy cross into actual arbitrary division.
No one here is going to s*** on you for doing like animal care advocacy or something, but if that advocacy is just claiming anyone who eats meat is an imperialist, it's not really helping anyone. It's just the recognition of where to place blame and choosing what battles to fight so long as the system remains corrupt - plants 🌻Apr 22, 2022·edited·1 replykrishna bound
Being combative about a point like tying privilege to food choice rather than economics isn't helping anything. Obviously no one can create systematic change themselves but that's why he (and others here) are saying that it's because of that you shouldn't let advocacy cross into actual arbitrary division.
No one here is going to s*** on you for doing like animal care advocacy or something, but if that advocacy is just claiming anyone who eats meat is an imperialist, it's not really helping anyone. It's just the recognition of where to place blame and choosing what battles to fight so long as the system remains corruptfair, i sometimes can't help but be combative man, but I'll try and be less aggro.
and i ain't saying everyone who eats meat is some lockstep imperialist oppressor but you can't argue that given 90%+ of our meat comes from factory farms that it is unavoidably linked to oppression of entire species. and what has led us to believe this is okay is linked to the ogs of oppression, white imperialists.
again it's such a widely multifaceted issue with huge social and cultural backings but when i look at the facts on how meat production is so indelibly tied to the oppression of poor in many areas, i find it hard to justify.
like mamba said i still got a lot to learn because many communities, like those in Ethiopia, are more or less separate from what I'm talking about. and their farming practices may be much more holistic and beneficial to the whole community rather than in places like America where production of these animals is tied to oppressing the poor and the minorities.
when i see the stats on hog farms in NC and how horribly it is affecting the communities nearby, coupled with the atrocities committed against those same people's from day one of this country...i just can't justify any type of meat consumption
- Apr 22, 2022·1 replyplants
fair, i sometimes can't help but be combative man, but I'll try and be less aggro.
and i ain't saying everyone who eats meat is some lockstep imperialist oppressor but you can't argue that given 90%+ of our meat comes from factory farms that it is unavoidably linked to oppression of entire species. and what has led us to believe this is okay is linked to the ogs of oppression, white imperialists.
again it's such a widely multifaceted issue with huge social and cultural backings but when i look at the facts on how meat production is so indelibly tied to the oppression of poor in many areas, i find it hard to justify.
like mamba said i still got a lot to learn because many communities, like those in Ethiopia, are more or less separate from what I'm talking about. and their farming practices may be much more holistic and beneficial to the whole community rather than in places like America where production of these animals is tied to oppressing the poor and the minorities.
when i see the stats on hog farms in NC and how horribly it is affecting the communities nearby, coupled with the atrocities committed against those same people's from day one of this country...i just can't justify any type of meat consumption
I think that's the problem though, the way you're explaining it doesn't come across as paying mind to other cultural factors or beliefs. I don't think legit anyone even the biggest meat eaters would argue anything about western factory farming is ethical in many manner. The issue though is that the same logic doesn't hold up if you're still trying to distill that blame away from the unethical farming linked to western systematic economics to like, african tribesman who eat a goat once a week or something. Like there's a massive distinction and you have to mediate cultural values differently and how those values are distinct from how meat is obtained; obviously a large part of ethics in the west is that, you're right, there's a huge cognitive dissonance about how meat is obtained vs how we morally think of animals - but this isn't a global phenomena, even in countries with massive vegetarian populations and religious vegetarian/veganism like India there's meat consumption.
- plants 🌻Apr 22, 2022·1 replykrishna bound
I think that's the problem though, the way you're explaining it doesn't come across as paying mind to other cultural factors or beliefs. I don't think legit anyone even the biggest meat eaters would argue anything about western factory farming is ethical in many manner. The issue though is that the same logic doesn't hold up if you're still trying to distill that blame away from the unethical farming linked to western systematic economics to like, african tribesman who eat a goat once a week or something. Like there's a massive distinction and you have to mediate cultural values differently and how those values are distinct from how meat is obtained; obviously a large part of ethics in the west is that, you're right, there's a huge cognitive dissonance about how meat is obtained vs how we morally think of animals - but this isn't a global phenomena, even in countries with massive vegetarian populations and religious vegetarian/veganism like India there's meat consumption.
i mean like two pages ago i did say i was speaking on first world types who buy from the grocery store. specifically those above poverty
- Apr 22, 2022·1 replyplants
i mean like two pages ago i did say i was speaking on first world types who buy from the grocery store. specifically those above poverty
Yeah but that's what's been said over the past few pages to, you have to separate the individual from the system in the west when placing blame because of its deep corruption, it's not that there's an intrinsic wrong to meat eating unique to westerners, it's that the system has made it impossible to ethically eat meat here, but that problem isn't as simple to deal with as to just avoid eating it