May 19, 2020·1 reply
Synopsis@KZ First of all, those types of crimes are not going to exist whatsoever. As I've said, prison abolition is just one series in a host of reforms i'd institute. So it's an irrelevant question.
I'm curious to how you're going to eliminate a crime from happening at all
- OPMay 19, 2020·1 replyshane
I'm curious to how you're going to eliminate a crime from happening at all
You remove the conditions that allow it to occur
- OPMay 19, 2020·1 reply
feministes-radicales.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Angela-Davis-Are_Prisons_Obsolete.pdf
I would encourage everyone to read this. If not the whole thing, at least the last chapter.
- May 19, 2020·1 replySynopsis
You remove the conditions that allow it to occur
Speaking it into existence is a lot harder, but what proven policies would effectively remove white collar crimes?
- OPMay 19, 2020shane
Speaking it into existence is a lot harder, but what proven policies would effectively remove white collar crimes?
I'm less interested in implementing random policies to curtail a problem than I am transforming society to eliminate the problem all together.
- OPMay 19, 2020·2 replies
CocaineNumbPlease delve into what you mean instead of just vaguely saying “rehabilitation facilities”. Give examples of countries where this has happened and worked and explain what these “rehabilitation facilities” entail. You can’t just reverberate something you’ve read on woke twitter without doing your research so you can’t break it down when someone asks.
1. First, it is irrelevant to point to countries where this has worked. That's like asking where democracy has worked before it was realized as a system. We as human beings have the capacity to visualize alternatives to our reality. Now some people will point to Norway, but like I've said I haven't studied their system all to closely.
2. It's pretty simple. For starters, I'd expect that at some point we wouldn't need these facilities at all after so many years in a society without the need for crimes. They are mainly only put in place because any transformation will leave us with a population of prisoners that have lived in terrible inhumane conditions. Still, the goal would be to eventually release all of them back into the population. That likely won't occur, but as I said, as the years go past we'll continue to see less and less people committing crime, so that these rehab facilities themselves eventually become extinct.
How they would work is that the only "punishment" is your removal from the general population. You'd get your own housing unit, probably a shared apartment complex type of thing. You'd get full, free access to education programs, nutritious meals, vocational training, etc., Unrestricted freedom of movement, albeit with supervisors in the buildings. Unlimited visitation rights as well.
May 19, 2020Synopsis1. First, it is irrelevant to point to countries where this has worked. That's like asking where democracy has worked before it was realized as a system. We as human beings have the capacity to visualize alternatives to our reality. Now some people will point to Norway, but like I've said I haven't studied their system all to closely.
2. It's pretty simple. For starters, I'd expect that at some point we wouldn't need these facilities at all after so many years in a society without the need for crimes. They are mainly only put in place because any transformation will leave us with a population of prisoners that have lived in terrible inhumane conditions. Still, the goal would be to eventually release all of them back into the population. That likely won't occur, but as I said, as the years go past we'll continue to see less and less people committing crime, so that these rehab facilities themselves eventually become extinct.
How they would work is that the only "punishment" is your removal from the general population. You'd get your own housing unit, probably a shared apartment complex type of thing. You'd get full, free access to education programs, nutritious meals, vocational training, etc., Unrestricted freedom of movement, albeit with supervisors in the buildings. Unlimited visitation rights as well.
great points
May 19, 2020·1 replyHuh?
- OPMay 19, 2020·1 replyYoungNastyShawty
Huh?
read the thread.
- May 19, 2020·editedSynopsis
read the thread.
34 pages and the man still can't grasp the point
I don't think he can read
May 19, 2020·1 replyCocaineNumbPlease delve into what you mean instead of just vaguely saying “rehabilitation facilities”. Give examples of countries where this has happened and worked and explain what these “rehabilitation facilities” entail. You can’t just reverberate something you’ve read on woke twitter without doing your research so you can’t break it down when someone asks.
Not OP but I will give you an example. For the most part, murderers in my country are let ago after about 19 years of jail. Even murderers can rehabilitate. Psychotic serial killers are not the norm even amongst murderers, at least not in my country. I know because I worked for a DA and had to visit prisons and s*** all the time. That being said, some people are beyond rehabilitation, and they are being locked away in a safe house after they leave prison. These cases are rare though.
- OPMay 19, 2020·1 replyARCADE GOON
Not OP but I will give you an example. For the most part, murderers in my country are let ago after about 19 years of jail. Even murderers can rehabilitate. Psychotic serial killers are not the norm even amongst murderers, at least not in my country. I know because I worked for a DA and had to visit prisons and s*** all the time. That being said, some people are beyond rehabilitation, and they are being locked away in a safe house after they leave prison. These cases are rare though.
norway?
- May 19, 2020Synopsis
norway?
Germany
- May 19, 2020
CalmYeu right. We should just kill pedos and rapists. No one should be in jail for stupid s*** like d**** or protesting
Until you find out the accusation was false or evidence was tampered so that you just killed an innocent person before finding out the truth.
- May 19, 2020·1 replymath fifty
why.
most murders are thought out and planned in advance
if someone is twisted enough to think out and plan a childs death they do not deserve a shot
Murders are not planned in advance as often as you think, manslaughter even less. You would surprised at how dumb most criminals are and how easily they get caught.
- May 19, 2020
Retributive justice isn’t justice. It’s just the reproduction of the conditions that beget crime in the first place. The justice system’s goal is to minimise the presence of crime to the lowest level possible by getting rid of poverty and any form of discrimination
The only way forward is transformative justice.
- May 19, 2020·1 replySynopsis
1. First, it is irrelevant to point to countries where this has worked. That's like asking where democracy has worked before it was realized as a system. We as human beings have the capacity to visualize alternatives to our reality. Now some people will point to Norway, but like I've said I haven't studied their system all to closely.
2. It's pretty simple. For starters, I'd expect that at some point we wouldn't need these facilities at all after so many years in a society without the need for crimes. They are mainly only put in place because any transformation will leave us with a population of prisoners that have lived in terrible inhumane conditions. Still, the goal would be to eventually release all of them back into the population. That likely won't occur, but as I said, as the years go past we'll continue to see less and less people committing crime, so that these rehab facilities themselves eventually become extinct.
How they would work is that the only "punishment" is your removal from the general population. You'd get your own housing unit, probably a shared apartment complex type of thing. You'd get full, free access to education programs, nutritious meals, vocational training, etc., Unrestricted freedom of movement, albeit with supervisors in the buildings. Unlimited visitation rights as well.
Do you honestly believe no one in a higher position has ever mused over this before, weighed up the pros and cons and ultimately decided it’s a bad idea?
The idea that there will ever be a time when crime is non-existent is totally fanciful. You say these centers will eventually put a stop crime but I thought the purpose was simply to rehabilitate these “patients”, how will they reach out to the budding criminals who haven’t yet been arrested? I just think it’s naive to believe crime is something that can be eradicated.
The current system is terrible, you won’t get any argument from me about that. But the answer cannot be “patients” being brought fresh coffee as they partake in their pottery classes. If your son was murdered over something petty, I cannot believe anyone would be happy in the knowledge that the perp will spend some time enjoying his cookery lessons before being released back into the general populace.
I think prisons can be reformed while still being prisons.
- OPMay 19, 2020·1 replyCocaineNumb
Do you honestly believe no one in a higher position has ever mused over this before, weighed up the pros and cons and ultimately decided it’s a bad idea?
The idea that there will ever be a time when crime is non-existent is totally fanciful. You say these centers will eventually put a stop crime but I thought the purpose was simply to rehabilitate these “patients”, how will they reach out to the budding criminals who haven’t yet been arrested? I just think it’s naive to believe crime is something that can be eradicated.
The current system is terrible, you won’t get any argument from me about that. But the answer cannot be “patients” being brought fresh coffee as they partake in their pottery classes. If your son was murdered over something petty, I cannot believe anyone would be happy in the knowledge that the perp will spend some time enjoying his cookery lessons before being released back into the general populace.
I think prisons can be reformed while still being prisons.
1. Its irrelevant if they have. First, them being in a higher position gives them no more inherent expertise on the matter than you or I. Second, I actually dont remember any elected officials being prison abolitionists.
2. I did not say that. I said in addition to these centers that we would have to remove the conditions that lead to crime. Poverty, inequality, etc., Any solution that seeks to reduce crime without tackling the root causes of it fall short. Once time has passed and crime has all but been eradicated, the centers themselves that I've proposed will be worthless because there will be no one to house them with.
3. This isnt about what you or I want. Although I would appreciate it if you and others itt would stop telling me how I would feel if some tragic event were to occur. This is about what's best for society going forward.
- May 19, 2020·1 replySynopsis
1. Its irrelevant if they have. First, them being in a higher position gives them no more inherent expertise on the matter than you or I. Second, I actually dont remember any elected officials being prison abolitionists.
2. I did not say that. I said in addition to these centers that we would have to remove the conditions that lead to crime. Poverty, inequality, etc., Any solution that seeks to reduce crime without tackling the root causes of it fall short. Once time has passed and crime has all but been eradicated, the centers themselves that I've proposed will be worthless because there will be no one to house them with.
3. This isnt about what you or I want. Although I would appreciate it if you and others itt would stop telling me how I would feel if some tragic event were to occur. This is about what's best for society going forward.
Crime will never be eradicated, that is a pipe dream. We can go some ways to reducing it but it will always be there. There are many criminals that are not victims of poverty or inequality nor are they mentally incapable. I’m assuming you want Wall Street financial criminals to be treated in these same hugboxes?
- OPMay 19, 2020·1 replyCocaineNumb
Crime will never be eradicated, that is a pipe dream. We can go some ways to reducing it but it will always be there. There are many criminals that are not victims of poverty or inequality nor are they mentally incapable. I’m assuming you want Wall Street financial criminals to be treated in these same hugboxes?
No, I want the systems that allow those wall street criminals to exist to be eradicated
- May 19, 2020·edited·1 replySynopsis
No, I want the systems that allow those wall street criminals to exist to be eradicated
You are adding a lot of conditions for your plans to be put in place.
- OPMay 19, 2020CocaineNumb
You are adding a lot of conditions for your plans to be put in place.
Lol no, I'm not. I've said from the beginning that you have to eliminate the causes of crime. Obviously white collar crime is a part of that.
- OPMay 19, 2020·1 reply
I'm not adding conditions, you keep asking questions and I keep answering
May 19, 2020·1 replyThere's a lot of underlying assumptions to what you described initially that are nowhere near being realized- the way things are going, not remotely foreseeable changes.
- OPMay 19, 2020·1 replyHALA
There's a lot of underlying assumptions to what you described initially that are nowhere near being realized- the way things are going, not remotely foreseeable changes.
And what are these underlying assumptions
