May 16, 2020
vantage jsajust look up bf skinner or anything related to behavioral psychology
and obviously this has existed in the form of laws in society dating back to hammurabi's code
I understand, but I think behaviourism is flawed in the sense that it regards agents as a blackbox. It does not pay attention to the mental processes underlying decisions at all, and I believe that those mental processes are super important, especially when reasoning about questions such as: why do people commit crimes, and how can we lower crime rates?
OPMay 16, 2020·1 reply
BANNEDBut you don't think any form of punishment should be issued for those crimes? You don't think the general population would have an issue with that?
I think itd be possible to get them on board
- May 16, 2020vantage jsa
for repeat offenders? i can actually see that. but you have to understand that the idea of crime and punishment influences the general public (which includes people who have yet to commit any crime) and acts to discourage them from committing any anti-social acts
it's basic behavioral psychology and pretty much ingrained in our brains.
You really think jail is keeping people scared to commit crimes with as violent and crime ridden as this country is
Provide a decent society for people to live in and nobody would want to murder someone over material things - May 16, 2020·1 replySynopsis
I think itd be possible to get them on board
I don't think you have personal experience with having someone in your life taken because of these things fam
May 16, 2020·1 replyNot a fan of the whole 'compare prison systems to slavery' thing.
Too many people locked up for foul s*** they've done and they don't deserve that sympathy. Slaves on the other hand were literally forced into it and in many cases born into it.
- OPMay 16, 2020·1 replyCactusJackSentYa
Not a fan of the whole 'compare prison systems to slavery' thing.
Too many people locked up for foul s*** they've done and they don't deserve that sympathy. Slaves on the other hand were literally forced into it and in many cases born into it.
Watch 13th
- OPMay 16, 2020BANNED
I don't think you have personal experience with having someone in your life taken because of these things fam
That's why we'd also have to try and eliminate as much crime as possible
May 16, 2020·2 repliesSynopsisWatch 13th
Prison is modern day slavery for those who don't deserve as much or no jail time for their petty crimes. When it comes to serious offenders such as murder, rape, violent offenders, etc, they deserve time bro
- OPMay 16, 2020·1 replyblanc
Prison is modern day slavery for those who don't deserve as much or no jail time for their petty crimes. When it comes to serious offenders such as murder, rape, violent offenders, etc, they deserve time bro
They deserve a second chance
- OPMay 16, 2020
Or a chance to earn another opportunity
May 16, 2020SynopsisThey deserve a second chance
- May 16, 2020
You know what they say, an eye for an eye
- May 16, 2020Synopsis
I said leave
This thread needs a voice of logic. Your thinking is way too idealistic bro.
None of this everyone deserves a second chance s*** is gonna fly with the people. Some people do not deserve second chances.
- May 16, 2020
If my loved one got murdered or whatever I would want the person to rot for rest of their life in jail, f*** giving “second chances”
May 17, 2020YuzzyAustralia
Lmao the convicts didnt have control or freedom they were kinda slaves
- May 17, 2020
This is a very privileged view of the world. You've never had to experience serious crimes in your white neighborhood, so you think everyone deserves a second chance. There are many people who do deserve a second chance. There are even many killers who deserve a second chance, but to completely get rid of prisons? No. Some people have to be locked up to protect the public. There are absolutely people are are just completely f***ed beyond any sort of rehabilitation. There are people who torture and kill children for sexual gratification. Tell us how you rehabilitate those people.
- OPMay 17, 2020
You've got this weird obsession with assuming things about my life
May 17, 2020·1 replySynopsispolitical dissidents and counter revolutionaries all get a stipend to move to a country of their choosing but are inevitably f***ed when we have international proletarian revolution.
So a dude who thinks it's kind of f***ed up that Laverentiy Beria gets to rape his daughter and get away with it is a "counter-revolutionary" and a "political enemy" now?
- May 17, 2020·edited
OP is ALL THE WAY in his bag on this one
- OPMay 17, 2020Replica
So a dude who thinks it's kind of f***ed up that Laverentiy Beria gets to rape his daughter and get away with it is a "counter-revolutionary" and a "political enemy" now?
Well that was a joke post lol
- OPMay 17, 2020·1 reply
MetaphoricalOneOk so then there's a position you're essentially supporting that you haven't stated or don't realize then.... I'll tell you what I mean, but I'll make some distinctions first what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about murder... No accidents.. No involuntary manslaughter... I'm talking about someone intentionally killing another person... That victim is gone and won't get another chance or another breathe.. They have no freedom to do anything... So there's already a strong argument they don't even deserve that chance having robbed that from another forever and thus should be separated from society, but let's entertain that they do because some may be rehabilitated or something.
Let's separate the two cases...
The person that makes the f***ed up decision to kill someone first... Yes I'm also not talking about one therapist or psychiatrist either... We can say multiple.. You agree multiple people in other areas can be fallible too I'd assume... Multiple cops, multiple judges, multiple prosecutors, etc... If you agree that they can be fallible, then we can agree that there will likely be some cases where this happens... A convicted murderer is released and makes the bad decision to murder again... I'll even concede without evidence that it may be a smaller percentage of cases where this happens, but you must admit on sheer probability that there will be some instances where this happens.
As far as the cases of people who have something wrong with their 🧠 that doesn't allow them to function in society without being a danger to others of course we should keep them separated from society, but even diagnosing that may not be something we can do definitively and so there may be cases where some of them get let out and murder again... How ever small a percentage is too much in my position.
So you're taking the position that you want murderers to get a second chance to be free or redemption at the expense of some people getting killed by them again to some degree... If there's just one instance of this... That's one too many in my estimation...
So let me ask you this, do you believe murder should be a life sentence?
Also, in some cases, murder already has a very low recidivism rate. justicepolicy.org/uploads/justicepolicy/documents/jpi_definingviolence_final_report_9.7.2016.pdf
I'd definitely suggest reading through this if you have the time
But of course this system is not perfect, no system is. What I would be banking on is that we can move to a more humane system of detention, that focuses on actually working towards potentially solving issues instead of punishing people and all of the problems we know that has arisen out of that approach, and that in conjunction with that we can do whats necessary to alleviate the conditions that cause so many to believe crimes are necessary to their survival.
Naturally, these therapists can be fallible even in larger groups, but I think they may end up less fallible than juries, lawyers, and other actors in our current criminal justice system, especially overzealous and racist prosecutors
- OPMay 17, 2020fallingpond
I disagree with the very emotional and low iq responses that most advocates of punitive justice will put forward, but I dont really think mass rehabilitation is possible simply on a resource basis and opportunity cost a***ysis.
Very few countries have the resources to commit to such a concept. Being able to spend billions on rehabilitating murderers and rapists (I don't deny that its possible unlike the people in this thread) is something that only the richest countries will ever have the opportunity to do. Most countries have far more important issues to deal with. Would you rather spend money on possibly rehabilitating a murderer back into civil society when you could just lock him up for life, or would you rather spend that money on more pressing needs such as healthcare or food? Most countries will never have the political will to spend money on hiring psychiatrists, providing amenities and recreation to prisoners, not out of hatred for criminals, but out of necessity. The benefits of spending an extra billion on infrastructure or social welfare will always far surpass the benefit of rehabilitive care for prisoners. We dont live in fully automated luxury communism yet.
Do you really think your rehabilitation centres, outside of the richest countries, would look anything different to existing jails? Why is it that only the most developed nations are capable of providing rehabilitative care instead of punitive justice (eg Norway)? As a socialist, here's an example closer to heart: were Soviet gulags terrible places because they were purposely designed that way out of evil, or was it because there were simply no resources that could be dedicated to them?
I mean we can provide healthcare and food along with doing this, no question about it.
as for what youre saying, i do think it would be unfortunate that global south countries might not have the ability to maintain such a system, but that is another issue altogether.
- May 17, 2020blanc
Prison is modern day slavery for those who don't deserve as much or no jail time for their petty crimes. When it comes to serious offenders such as murder, rape, violent offenders, etc, they deserve time bro
My exact thoughts
May 17, 2020·1 replySynopsisa rehab facility.
I understand where you comin from but there really are some people who cant be helped i think instead of outright getting rid of them we make for profit prisons illegal and make them more rehabilitation focussed
- OPMay 17, 2020MM6 Moka
I understand where you comin from but there really are some people who cant be helped i think instead of outright getting rid of them we make for profit prisons illegal and make them more rehabilitation focussed
y'all keep getting hung up on this point
if someone can't be helped, they'll likely just spend the remainder of their time in rehab.
and private prisons are only 8% of the prison population.
addressing them is necessary, but not sufficient. it's really sad to me how that seems to be the extent of some peoples crim reform policies and its because its so easy to latch onto while allowing the system as a whole to remain intact.