Aug 11, 2020·1 reply
ARCADE GOONkeep in mind that it's a pamphlet, that marx was still young when he wrote it, and that it is more a historical document than a manifesto for today's movement. but no harm in knowing some history
I know. I just like the writing of it. As an art form lol
- Aug 11, 2020·1 replyspongebob
I know. I just like the writing of it. As an art form lol
it's crazy how much of the things right wingers say today are the same arguments as back then 150 years ago aint it
- Aug 11, 2020·edited·1 replyARCADE GOON
it's crazy how much of the things right wingers say today are the same arguments as back then 150 years ago aint it
😂 u mean that they haven’t updated to modern times? Big surprise
They wanna mix millennias old sacred texts with modern government in 2020
So bad - Aug 11, 2020·edited·2 replies
KOLLAPSThey'd pay 0 tax regardless if there wasn't a state though. And they usually receive those tax cuts in returns for compromises which they wouldn't need to do without a state.
the capitalist state depends on taxes to exist. yes, they want low taxes, but if they all paid 0 taxes, who would build the roads, the electricity networks, the utilities? who would build the nuclear bombs that protect the USA, how would there be an army? the elites wants a state that enforces laws that are beneficial for them, like debt laws, patent laws, and don't want laws that are unbeneficial for them, like minimum wages. they don't oppose laws altogether
- Aug 11, 2020KOLLAPS
They'd pay 0 tax regardless if there wasn't a state though. And they usually receive those tax cuts in returns for compromises which they wouldn't need to do without a state.
Yeah, maybe my perspective would be different if I weren't in such an aggressively capitalist country,
In a place where socialism and or communism was much closer than here, would I have a clearer view of the possibilities and what it'd look like
- Aug 11, 2020·1 replyARCADE GOON
my man. CEOs are definitely fans of the state, since the USA gave them the biggest wealth transfer in history due to COVID, trillions of US dollars.
anarcho-capitalism is really an internet meme ideology. like ok communism is not widespread either in some countries but there are several million people on earth who identify as it, including a significant portion of the largest country on earth, and many intellectuals who write or have written about it. anarcho-capitalism basically only exists online.
you are right that they don want REGULATIONS to harm their businesses. that's right. but they do want a functioning court system, just so they can settle claims, hold intellectual property, hold patents, collect debts, enforce contracts and so on. and how is this system carried out? through "state violence" - the idea of, when you don't do the things the courts (= the state) tell you to do, they can take away your property and/or throw you in jail. for this, you definitely need some sort of state. i'm not saying you need environmental regulations or labor regulations, but you need the basis of what every state is built upon, including any socialist state: institutional violence, i.e. courts and police.
Okay my bad I thought you were saying that no capitalists believe me I was like woah woah but I also saw that you brought it up in your previous post I guess I read over that part.
I'd love for anarcho-capitalism to be built upon by actual intellectuals, I think it's a very interesting concept that a person like me could one day be a fan of.
Also man, I guess you can say that for COVID, but a CEO like Elon Musk is certainly no fan of the state telling him what he can and can't do with his factory.
All I'm saying is, capitalism isn't inherently tied to the state. Just like communism isn't. We also don't live in an entirely capitalist nation. Any nation can reach a point of free-market dominance where the state can be done away with, just like any socialist state can reach the point where the state is no longer necessary. Or at least in theory in regards to both. Like capitalism can exist without a state.
- Aug 11, 2020
We gone say something too apt and they gone leak the IP's to Elon's 4chan army of worshippers they gone get us outta here I'm scared
- Aug 11, 2020·2 repliesARCADE GOON
keep in mind that it's a pamphlet, that marx was still young when he wrote it, and that it is more a historical document than a manifesto for today's movement. but no harm in knowing some history
What would be the more appropriate document for the modern movement then?
Aug 11, 2020·1 replyKOLLAPSOkay my bad I thought you were saying that no capitalists believe me I was like woah woah but I also saw that you brought it up in your previous post I guess I read over that part.
I'd love for anarcho-capitalism to be built upon by actual intellectuals, I think it's a very interesting concept that a person like me could one day be a fan of.
Also man, I guess you can say that for COVID, but a CEO like Elon Musk is certainly no fan of the state telling him what he can and can't do with his factory.
All I'm saying is, capitalism isn't inherently tied to the state. Just like communism isn't. We also don't live in an entirely capitalist nation. Any nation can reach a point of free-market dominance where the state can be done away with, just like any socialist state can reach the point where the state is no longer necessary. Or at least in theory in regards to both. Like capitalism can exist without a state.
who enforces property laws in a capitalist society without a state?
- Aug 11, 2020·1 reply
also we do live in an entirely capitalist society. the existence of welfare doesn't mean otherwise.
- Aug 11, 2020ARCADE GOON
the capitalist state depends on taxes to exist. yes, they want low taxes, but if they all paid 0 taxes, who would build the roads, the electricity networks, the utilities? who would build the nuclear bombs that protect the USA, how would there be an army? the elites wants a state that enforces laws that are beneficial for them, like debt laws, patent laws, and don't want laws that are unbeneficial for them, like minimum wages. they don't oppose laws altogether
This can all be done through private ownership. It's not impossible.
- Aug 11, 2020·1 replySynopsis
who enforces property laws in a capitalist society without a state?
who enforces labor laws in a communist society without a state?
Isn't it the same answer?
- Aug 11, 2020KOLLAPS
What would be the more appropriate document for the modern movement then?
more updated literature, because tcm is kinda like, starting theory and philosophy and also a documentation about how capitalism and the industrial revolution were functioning at the time, and predictions about what will happen next, s*** is almost 2 centuries old
- Aug 11, 2020·1 replyKOLLAPS
who enforces labor laws in a communist society without a state?
Isn't it the same answer?
uh the workers, to put it in simplest terms.
- Aug 11, 2020·edited·1 replyspongebob
😂 u mean that they haven’t updated to modern times? Big surprise
They wanna mix millennias old sacred texts with modern government in 2020
So bad
If you wanna listen to a video. Wolff is a great speaker who explains complex issues in simple manners.
Also Abby Martin is hot af
She was also on the Joe Rogan pdocast - Aug 11, 2020ARCADE GOON
the capitalist state depends on taxes to exist. yes, they want low taxes, but if they all paid 0 taxes, who would build the roads, the electricity networks, the utilities? who would build the nuclear bombs that protect the USA, how would there be an army? the elites wants a state that enforces laws that are beneficial for them, like debt laws, patent laws, and don't want laws that are unbeneficial for them, like minimum wages. they don't oppose laws altogether
I'm also not arguing that elite capitalists don't love the government when it's convenient for them. But I'm sure you're not basing your arguments for socialism off of people who loved capitalism when it was convenient for them.
Under a completely free market, it's f*** your patent, if you yourself don't make the best and cheapest product you won't reap all the profit made from the product itself.
- Aug 11, 2020·2 repliesSynopsis
uh the workers, to put it in simplest terms.
So yeah same answer
- Aug 11, 2020·1 reply
also im not sure how one would violate labor laws in a society without bosses.
- Aug 11, 2020·1 replyKOLLAPS
So yeah same answer
No, not the same answer. Because workers don't control property in this anarcho capitalist state you're proposing.
- Aug 11, 2020KOLLAPS
So yeah same answer
collective accountability in a more equal manner as opposed to an upper/ruling class having the advantage over the workers even if said ruling class is irrelevant to what the workers are doing day to day
- Aug 11, 2020·1 reply
What do yall think about in the midst of the protests this year multiple US cities created autonomous zones to experiment with new forms of community
- Aug 11, 2020·1 replySynopsis
also we do live in an entirely capitalist society. the existence of welfare doesn't mean otherwise.
No we don't. If we did the mere thought of sustainable energy would probably be outlawed
- Aug 11, 2020·edited·1 replyKOLLAPS
No we don't. If we did the mere thought of sustainable energy would probably be outlawed
They're trying their best lol
- Aug 11, 2020·1 replyspongebob
What do yall think about in the midst of the protests this year multiple US cities created autonomous zones to experiment with new forms of community
One of the first radical leftist projects of the modern area was the Paris Commune. It worked for a short while before the state of France moved in and destroyed it, killing all the leaders. Marx has written a lot about it since he was from that era. I think it's similar to those small autonomous zones, although of course far less revolutionary and violent. A small-scale version if you may. The same problems of such autonomous zones exist today as did back in the days of the Paris Commune almost 150 years ago. I think they are good to raise awareness, but not long-term solutions to anything.
- Aug 11, 2020·1 replyARCADE GOON
One of the first radical leftist projects of the modern area was the Paris Commune. It worked for a short while before the state of France moved in and destroyed it, killing all the leaders. Marx has written a lot about it since he was from that era. I think it's similar to those small autonomous zones, although of course far less revolutionary and violent. A small-scale version if you may. The same problems of such autonomous zones exist today as did back in the days of the Paris Commune almost 150 years ago. I think they are good to raise awareness, but not long-term solutions to anything.
I see it as people are fed up with how communities are policed and did it to show solidarity when it was evident the government was not going to care for its people
like u said, not a long term solution but I like the idea that people did that in general
also
thats dope as hellhistory kinda repeats itself or ideas and movements come back in waves the more u learn the more its kinda mindblowing but you can predict where things are heading.
The idea of a revolution i always think the government will do whatever they can to appease people to the bare minimum at which they won't collectively and violently revolt.
