Jun 9, 2021·3 replies
spongebobu talking bout hypotheticals of what a socialist govt might do meanwhile capitalist /anti-socialist governments are actively doing most of the things u claim these crazy “unhinged,” “hypothetical” socialist governments will do. the point of socialism is to stop exploitation and capitalism exploits workers and the climate they live in by its main principles. it has to. because more money and expansion has to be done for the model to continue to return what it’s leaders want.
more more more just to hoard it all
and i know you’re arguing for some type of middle ground but you blaming s*** on socialism that is inherent to capitalism . u firing your shots in the wrong direction
I didn’t say they would, I said they could. And America is like the only major country that isn’t fully on board with the whole climate change thing.
If capitalism “has to” exploit everything to survive, slavery would have never been abolished. The climate crisis is of course a negative side effect of capitalist consumption, but just like the slave trade, it could be solved without economic planning
- Jun 9, 2021·1 replyEnpax
Yes, I mean how a frighteningly large percentage of Americans voted for a man who claimed climate change is a Chinese hoax and continued on with what it’s doing.
Now imagine if this was a socialist head of state and made it official policy to deny climate change in such a way where after we voted him out of power, we couldn’t just re enter the Paris accords.
My point isn’t that capitalist governments handle it better or worse, it’s that capitalism wouldn’t cease to exist if climate change was taken seriously and that it’s fully possible for a socialist government to not do anything about it. Fortunately most of the worlds governments (mostly capitalist) have agreed to try to target goals of sustainable and renewable energy use
u mean how a capitalist government is allowing its states to push forth bills that are trying to make discussing racism illegal in K-12 classrooms when the US is built on slavery and oppression?
You’re talking about how these “capitalist” governments MIGHT pick up on the incentive to try and help with climate change problems and saying that that’s better than a socialist government that would allow itself to be held accountable by everyday people
I’m coming from the perspective of the status of the US i haven’t lived in any socdem or socialist countries so u can pin me on that aspect. I just think i’d rather have a government that was accountable to the people and the well-being of all of its citizens and furthermore the planet at large instead of one that waits on a profit motive to do so.
Profit incentive isn’t going to solve the worlds problems. and i don’t want to live in a world where regular people have to rely on that notion to come and save the day.
it’s a system set on eventual self destruction
However.... I will say that social democracy would be way better than what’s happening rn, given it was able to be checked and held accountable to the welfare of the people. it’d be a good step
this is why it’s stupid when soc/com/socdems argue immaturely instead of showing solidarity because anyone should recognize there have to be steps to this s*** and we could all probably agree on some things that lead us to a better place overall but we want to be right and these set righteous individuals all the time
Jun 9, 2021EnpaxI didn’t say they would, I said they could. And America is like the only major country that isn’t fully on board with the whole climate change thing.
If capitalism “has to” exploit everything to survive, slavery would have never been abolished. The climate crisis is of course a negative side effect of capitalist consumption, but just like the slave trade, it could be solved without economic planning
This is entirely wrong.
Jun 9, 2021spongebob👋hi new account
hi!
- Jun 9, 2021Enpax
I didn’t say they would, I said they could. And America is like the only major country that isn’t fully on board with the whole climate change thing.
If capitalism “has to” exploit everything to survive, slavery would have never been abolished. The climate crisis is of course a negative side effect of capitalist consumption, but just like the slave trade, it could be solved without economic planning
im just heavily biased living in the US and being very dissatisfied what’s going on. there are other models that would be a vast improvement upon what’s happening now. so that’s where i’m coming from.
- Jun 9, 2021·1 replyEnpax
I didn’t say they would, I said they could. And America is like the only major country that isn’t fully on board with the whole climate change thing.
If capitalism “has to” exploit everything to survive, slavery would have never been abolished. The climate crisis is of course a negative side effect of capitalist consumption, but just like the slave trade, it could be solved without economic planning
and yeah that capitalism slavery statement was kinda weird i’m going to try to respond to that thoughtfully
- Jun 9, 2021·2 repliesspongebob
wealth inequality on such a scale that prolongs suffering of millions of people is stupid though, and corporations asking for bailouts from the government when they’re worth trillion + dollars is stupid as well, that money should go toward uplifting people not given to the rich at every turn
bro people who are smart will get rich and find a way to game the system, didnt say its right but its how its always been. but i would like for jeff bezos and warren buffet to get taxed way more cause its obvious they take pennies from them and if that
- Jun 9, 2021itsnottrue
bro people who are smart will get rich and find a way to game the system, didnt say its right but its how its always been. but i would like for jeff bezos and warren buffet to get taxed way more cause its obvious they take pennies from them and if that
more reports coming out about elon and bezos not paying any taxes recently
- Jun 9, 2021·1 reply
Socialism would inherently have to deal with climate change. Capitalism inherently will worsen climate change, even if trying to take action to stop it.
- Jun 9, 2021itsnottrue
bro people who are smart will get rich and find a way to game the system, didnt say its right but its how its always been. but i would like for jeff bezos and warren buffet to get taxed way more cause its obvious they take pennies from them and if that
ok yeah, they should be taxed, a lot more. i don’t really disagree with you on that. and yeah it’s been like that for a while
- Jun 9, 2021spongebob
u mean how a capitalist government is allowing its states to push forth bills that are trying to make discussing racism illegal in K-12 classrooms when the US is built on slavery and oppression?
You’re talking about how these “capitalist” governments MIGHT pick up on the incentive to try and help with climate change problems and saying that that’s better than a socialist government that would allow itself to be held accountable by everyday people
I’m coming from the perspective of the status of the US i haven’t lived in any socdem or socialist countries so u can pin me on that aspect. I just think i’d rather have a government that was accountable to the people and the well-being of all of its citizens and furthermore the planet at large instead of one that waits on a profit motive to do so.
Profit incentive isn’t going to solve the worlds problems. and i don’t want to live in a world where regular people have to rely on that notion to come and save the day.
it’s a system set on eventual self destruction
However.... I will say that social democracy would be way better than what’s happening rn, given it was able to be checked and held accountable to the welfare of the people. it’d be a good step
this is why it’s stupid when soc/com/socdems argue immaturely instead of showing solidarity because anyone should recognize there have to be steps to this s*** and we could all probably agree on some things that lead us to a better place overall but we want to be right and these set righteous individuals all the time
There’s no “might” they literally just are. The uk is planning to phase out gas cars by 2030, same with some other European countries. You can’t bring up Republican proposals as the only standard of western government while ignoring democratic attempts at drafting bills that reduce climate change
The governments of socialist countries aren’t any more accountable to the people than capitalist countries when propaganda is at play. Also not every system in the world has to be based on the profit incentive, like I’m not a libertarian.
We’re arguing because socialists believe that socdems rely on third world poverty to succeed (they don’t), and socdems believe that socialist policies result in poverty and poor living conditions for the people that have to live through them
Jun 9, 2021Why yall still reply to enpax lmaooo
- Jun 9, 2021
An issue with Socdem policy -- in America at least -- is it would throw us bones and act like they gave us a feast. I agree that socdem/com/soc should try to stop arguing, but Socdems in the US need more historical understanding of the US government and all that it does. And that makes it tough for the arguing to stop. Educating (and I say this attempting to sound as little patronizing as possible) folks would drastically reduce the Socdem thinking in America.
- Jun 9, 2021·2 repliesJ__
Socialism would inherently have to deal with climate change. Capitalism inherently will worsen climate change, even if trying to take action to stop it.
How? There are socialist countries like Cuba that use up more of their energy through fossil fuels than America, even though Cuba also believes in climate change.
This same line of thinking is brought to you by the people that claim socialism as an egalitarian ideology wouldn’t inherently be tolerant of the lgbt, even though numerous socialist governments discriminated against and repressed them
- Jun 9, 2021
How is a man that has been trolling Kanye west forums for over a decade now still talking about anyone else
- Jun 9, 2021·2 repliesEnpax
How? There are socialist countries like Cuba that use up more of their energy through fossil fuels than America, even though Cuba also believes in climate change.
This same line of thinking is brought to you by the people that claim socialism as an egalitarian ideology wouldn’t inherently be tolerant of the lgbt, even though numerous socialist governments discriminated against and repressed them
Cuba is blackballed from all angles, man.
And in regards to lgbtq issues, and racist thinking, that would def not immediately be resolved with Socialism. But it would rid those issues institutionally (is that a word?), and that over years would help to rid trans/homophobia and racism socially.
Jun 9, 2021·1 replyEnpaxHow? There are socialist countries like Cuba that use up more of their energy through fossil fuels than America, even though Cuba also believes in climate change.
This same line of thinking is brought to you by the people that claim socialism as an egalitarian ideology wouldn’t inherently be tolerant of the lgbt, even though numerous socialist governments discriminated against and repressed them
This is dumb as s*** bc literally ten years ago most countries were very anti-gay. Most capitalist countries hated gay people and still do. Also Cuba has been making several strides to include their LGBTQ+ citizens.
Look at this thread- Jun 9, 2021·1 replyJ__
Cuba is blackballed from all angles, man.
And in regards to lgbtq issues, and racist thinking, that would def not immediately be resolved with Socialism. But it would rid those issues institutionally (is that a word?), and that over years would help to rid trans/homophobia and racism socially.
What makes you say that
- Jun 9, 2021·1 reply
That is to say, Cuba is kept poor on purpose, and doesn't have the option to not use fossil fuels. If these imperialist countries stopped imperializing, then yea, Cuba could stop using fossil fuels
- Jun 9, 2021·1 replyVA7a
This is dumb as s*** bc literally ten years ago most countries were very anti-gay. Most capitalist countries hated gay people and still do. Also Cuba has been making several strides to include their LGBTQ+ citizens.
https://twitter.com/laborwavecccp/status/1402663815834124289
Look at this threadCapitalist countries being homophobic has NOTHING to do with the claim. This isn’t about how capitalist countries are more tolerant, it’s about how neither system “inherently” promotes lgbt rights. North Korea literally opposed the UN statements on human rights for the LGBT
- Jun 9, 2021·2 repliesEnpax
What makes you say that
What makes me say that about lgbtq issues and racism?
Because when the institutions that makes it tough for those people, help to cause the stereotypes, the jokes, the white guilt racism, the inclination for crime of minorities in poverty, etc, etc, etc, to be gone, and that changes how straight, cis white men and women see and treat race issues. Also, grade school education would be an entire different curriculum when it came to slavery and red lining, etc. People in general would be less ignorant.
- Jun 9, 2021·1 replyJ__
That is to say, Cuba is kept poor on purpose, and doesn't have the option to not use fossil fuels. If these imperialist countries stopped imperializing, then yea, Cuba could stop using fossil fuels
No, because Armenia is poorer than Cuba yet uses less of a percentage of its energy consumption on fossil fuels. Then there are countries like Myanmar and North Korea that are also under sanctions yet use less of a percentage than Cuba.
I got it from here, dates are old so it may no longer be accurate
- Jun 9, 2021Enpax
No, because Armenia is poorer than Cuba yet uses less of a percentage of its energy consumption on fossil fuels. Then there are countries like Myanmar and North Korea that are also under sanctions yet use less of a percentage than Cuba.
I got it from here, dates are old so it may no longer be accurate
https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/EG.USE.COMM.FO.ZS/rankings
You have to look at it geopolitically, though. Cuba is an island. Having the infrastructure necessary to make the jump to less use of fossil fuels is key.