The health of the genre in the mainstream absolutely matters whether you want to admit it or not.

It’s not solely about sales either.

What does Ken Carson do that is unique? Or pushing the genre forward? Is he making music that will stand the test of time?

All of these things affect the health of the genre in the mainstream. It’s not just a numbers issue.

To answer ur question ab that seriously this is my view

He changed rage music and pushed it forward into a completely dif direction, that album specifically while it does it less takes the abrasive sound of a great chaos and pushes it to the extreme it’s basically a wall of sound noisy album made for listener fatigue, taking more heavy inspo from the slam metal he listens to for its structure, aesthetic, and feel

U don’t have to like that that’s like super fair but it is indeed different form any other album u would ever see in the top 30. Crazy that’s the one that went #1 esp considering lack of promo.
A great chaos and forward his rap style is his own, it takes rage and instead takes heavy insipid from early 10s trap music, while adding crazy amounts of layers and rapping long verses minimal adlibs and the signature overwhelmingly f***ed up bass.

This has been taken to more and more extremes and dif directions recently, and this whole wave tends to take inspiration from more hardcore fast paced electronic music (see: Che) although I don’t think Ken was the best to do it this year and more chaos was more novel.

We’ve seen waves like this before such as no wave, noise rock, etc and whether it stands the test of time is up to the world but already the 2023 work like flex music and a great chaos def have o feel like a great chaos is a super beloved album that comes up all the time. Who knows what it’ll evolve into aswell but it’s def pushing new music waves sounds etc

U don’t even gotta like it or respect it but I think this is a p fair view

I can talk about way more than Ken tho we can go to a lot of new artists it’s jus the club guys obv im not gonna have much to say ab them lol like glo and latto but those have always existed

if u say “carti type stuff” yea it’s just an easier way to describe an archetype fairs. However saying it to dismiss him or calling him a ripoff just doesn’t make sense THESE AREN'T SUBTLE DIFFERENCES THEY ARE BARELY ANYTHING ALIKEEE I just hate that people attribute so much s*** to carti that isn’t him like as I said give me a single carti verse where he raps like expiration date

He’s inspired by that era of trap music sure. But if anything again it’s Uzi lol he raps like Uzi or thug sometimes his vocal style doesn’t sound like Carti at all his beats aren’t liek Carti’s beats other than when he picks a rage beat here and there. No one ever gives anything to back up calling some a carti ripoff they just say it cuz it’s in a similar lineage/realm. But like it erases so much contributions and innovators and individual artists to downplay them.

Ok the last point is interesting and to that I say i feel u, my thing is no wave appeals to everyone otherwise it’s a watered down mix of waves. We both prolly love cloud rap right? I don’t think that was loved by everyone at the time at all. Neither was thug or future

But like, we do have rising stars and we do have mad dif styles right? Like, doechii who just had a commercial run doesn’t sound like rising star fakemink who’s on his own island, who doesn’t sound like ken, who isn’t much like don toliver.

Also ya I been making some drumless stuff, some preservation type s***, some other s*** like idek how to describe this one I did it recently one sec

Ok these two r same sample same drums flipped dif ways wyt I should do w these twin

voca.ro/1h1gioFdkwzu

voca.ro/1nfCqR09dPDF

voca.ro/12TAoEtRszSv

Made dis the other day tooo I think I wanna rap on it

Hip hop is struggling right now because nobody cares enough to be great and it doesn't benefit rappers monetarily, in the short term, to express themselves in a unique and vulnerable way. Clock in, play your role, get your streams, clock out. That's what the industry wants and that's how you get support from it. But that's not how great art is made.

Bringing musical influences, lack of respect for hip hop, etc. into it suggests that these rappers even want to exert that kind of agency over their art. I think a lot of them don't even care that much.

Hate how yall s*** on and dismiss the intentions and work of all the artists out rn just because u might not like their music or it’s not commercially successful enough for you. Stop assuming what people care about and what work they put in. Nobody is in music for the money rn, less than ever before lol most rising artists are people who grinded for years and influenced entire waves before even getting a deal

I'm primarily referring to mainstream-adjacent hip hop clogging up Rap Caviar by rappers who can't even perform live. Obviously there's a whole strata of talented artists who love music and are trying their best.

Oh yh I also hate rapcaviar so fair but Like who?

lil Nas x, shaboozey and big x the new big 3

tbf

i enjoy pierre a lot more than IM

i think at least in his solo music, the production is pretty dope

IM is get rich quick type beat music

Literally your MBDTF thread is everything you’re condemning in this post

it’s based on Kanye’s real words tho I’m not assuming and something feeling like it’s trying to appeal to critics is not the same as me dismissing Kanye or assuming it’s true

nor did I even dismiss mbdtf off my subjective experience lol

I’m sure Kanye set out to make great music that’s what he also liked and he worked really hard. I still called it a classic too

U can critique something for feeling critic baity or too much that’s dif than calling someone lazy and dismissing their artistic integrity

Nah you know I fw Pierre

It wasn’t really his fault, After Die Lit dropped everyone ripped him off

I’m not even saying IM is bad, Nick Mira talented as hell. They just promoted the “make 50 ____ type beats a day” mentality

yeah thats true

never understood that mindset either, the whole “u gotta make 50 beats a day” or youre gonna fail

so many elements of distortion and abrasive sounds are infecting the sound too. aint no more smooth cool sounding s*** to drive slow to anymore either. rap used to be cool, chill kinda vibes not overly edgy sounding. there's records that tap into a balance but the new gen aint making that kinda stuff anymore

I mean it makes sense if you’re just trying to get better. It’s basically just saying work on music as much as possible

But I’d say the weird shift happened when artists kinda stopped going to specific producers for their sound

The “lemme send lil baby 50 lil baby type beats” s***

The whole type beat idea kinda imploded on itself

Is that osamasson s*** a literal memetic infection ? I see motherfuckers try to defend that music and they be smiling while doing it like they know it’s f***ikg ass

Watch out, Andre Jaquet bout to pop back in here and tell you how osamason is clearly influenced by world class composers

If anything there's too many rappers nowadays tryna some rockstar, EDM, indie sleaze, hyper pop bullshit

Everything he says applies to everyone besides the pet junkie rage artists he d***rides

I like a lot of that sound but the people that act like it’s some cutting edge ass music that you have to absolutely fw or you’re an washed oldhead is pretty dumb

Lot of valid and understandable criticisms for it

I went to the show just yesterday love his music, it’s just abrasive man it’s not really made to be universally loved u don’t gotta like it but that don’t mean anybody else pretending

don’t know what this even means lol and I think ur kinda a loser if u define an artist by the fact d**** r mentioned in their music or they are in subgenre u don’t fancy

100% there’s valid criticisms for all music the issue is when u dismiss and disrespect abrasive music for being abrasive when u can just like not listen to it and be ok

Nah hes influenced by speaker knockerz, future, Sosa, carti, yeat, and im p sure and his fam all made music. Cant speak to outside influences. Based on his early s*** he prolly listened to a lot of plugg and pluggnb. If going in depth to acc info on artists influences on a thread about artists influences is wild to u then idk