they don’t know i’ve heard the phone call before and it doesn’t mean much. Yanukovych shot his own people and his position ceased to be tenable.

eastern, southern ukraine held the more favourable opinion, but did not at all want russia to invade

contemporary ukraine polling has literally everyone supporting the retaking of their lane whether russophone or ukrainian speaking.

We reached "there was no coup and if there was it was good shoutout CIA"

he was ousted by his own people after he reneged on a deal he was elected on, then shot protesters

the cia had a preferred option, but there is no evidence they were able to choose the successor. p sure in the actual phone call they also state they like Klitschko, who was not in fact made President after the events.

after that, the ukrainians held elections won by petto poroshenko, so even if the cia got their guy, he didn’t last long at all

evidence ain’t really all there for you. you can’t stomach the fact that in some ways alignment towards america is preferable. ukrainians never wanted it before russia started being the aggressor. it is you who is dogmatic and you have the prose of a 12 year old which probably explains a lot

Fast forward to September 2013, and Carl Gershman, NED chief from its launch until summer 2021, authored an op-ed for The Washington Post, outlining how his organization was hard at work wresting countries in Russia’s near abroad–the constellation of former Soviet republics and Warsaw Pact states–away from Moscow’s orbit.

Along the way, he described Ukraine as “the biggest prize” in the region, suggesting Kiev joining Europe would “accelerate the demise” of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Six months later, Ukraine’s elected president Viktor Yanukovych was ousted in a violent coup.

Writing in Consortium News earlier that month, investigative legend Robert Parry recorded how, over the previous year, NED had funded 65 projects in Ukraine totaling over $20 million. This amounted to what the late journalist dubbed “a shadow political structure of media and activist groups that could be deployed to stir up unrest when the Ukrainian government didn’t act as desired.”

Nevermind. I just found out that the national endowment for democracy just wanted to bring democracy to a savage and barbaric place that had the gall to not privatize all of its resources. My bad.

washingtonpost.com/opinions/former-soviet-states-stand-up-to-russia-will-the-us/2013/09/26/b5ad2be4-246a-11e3-b75d-5b7f66349852_story.html

here is the article for you to read

‘ukraine is the biggest prize’ becomes much less outrageous phrase in the arrticle, p sure he meant that as in prize to russia

article isn’t that bad, nor does any of what NED did constitute a coup. if you don’t want unrest don’t shoot your own people

Yanukovych wanted to sign an association agreement with the EU. This is what helped him get elected by swinging some voters who otherwise wouldn’t vote for his party. Russia blackmailed ukraine into aligning with russia. ukrainians were naturally not happy. they protested. the government shot at them.

Do you geniunely believe the NED isnt an arm of the CIA to expand the global empire?

im not standing up for america, i’m standing against russian aggression and bullshit. in this case, everything is on russia

russia had zero just cause to do anything they did. end of story

To me russia is just an nationalist empire nothing more nothing less. Trying to gain influence where it can. But the fact that people like you don't think the same of the GLOBAL empire USA is insane.

The PRO DEMOCRACY PRO AMERICA PRO EUROPE protests whether in Georgia or Ukraine can be partly natural but I guarantee you that they are all getting pumped with NED money or direct cia money

at least you’re able to call russia what it is unlike a lot of people here who tacitly support it

the money isn’t what makes them popular. the movements are organic

and leave europe out of this, the eu has brought prosperity to every eastern country that joined it- of course they want to get in. it’s a no brainer. you don’t need western money to see how much better off you are from joining. baffles me you don’t see why it’s both materially and politically superior

Your viewpoint is just completely naive to me. American empire and its agencies go 10x further than you think.

brother, what is naive about weariness of a country which has run you over on several occasions throughout history, including living memory

even if i am wrong, which i’m not, the rational interest for my people is so whatever we can to protect ourselves and be ready for them to try it again

I agree you should be wary of Germany

they’re no longer a threat, the other guys who f***ed us over are

“Keep the US in, keep the Russians out, and keep the Germans down”

That Baron Ismay quote goes hard

Germany was happy to buy gas from a repressive autocracy to fuel its economic model. i got way more respect for the OG soviets nato was made for- at least they were intelligent and believed in something

contemporary russian leadership is basically one large gang of thugs and criminals. no utopia to offer, just paranoid kicking and screaming.

And the US buys oil from Saudi Arabia but you wallow at their feet

The way Saudi US relations are going, probably not for much longer

hopefully you go energy self sufficient soon, until net zero becomes fully operational the eu should run a pipeline to nigeria instead. buy it off a country that doesn’t f*** with its neighbours

as for wallowing at their feet, i don’t know. it’s not an idealisation, but i think the view of the polish government is ‘they keep us safe’

does it feel like your country is sinking and americans are like “be happy it’s russia and not america”

what sorry?

Do you know literally anything about Poland?

our country isnt sinking as far as i can tell. weird as soon as we democratised, everything started to improve.