Let's see how much people in this thread talk about this

This is arguably the worst atrocity of the war and what's more, the Russians readily admit it

This thread the only place where toppling a Lenin statue gets more coverage than forcible displacement

Wym there's no proof lmao, there were two referendums in both Donetsk and Luhansk in 2014 overwhelmingly showing support for secession, and both referendums weren't even supported by Putin who didn't want them to take place lol.

And in the crimea all polls now indicate they want to be a part of Russia. There's really no denying this.

Just admit it lol, you can try to make up a bunch of reasons for why you support one over the other but in geopolitics it has always been territorial integrity for the vros and minority self-determination for the enemies, that's basically just what you're doing now lol. But as a true bleeding heart naive ass liberal you gotta trick yourself into thinking that Western imperialist objectives have anything to do with the will of the people.

Yes so the Russians get to make off with every other bit of land they've taken since the outbreak of this war

And I don't believe these legitimate referenda happen with little green men and down the barrel of a gun,

ah yes.

the legitimate democratic process of Russia

Lukashenko also wins it fair and square the last 5 terms

you wanna play the democracy card but aren't one yourself?

alright

Communists are extremely good at criticising liberals

Issue is they assume every imperialist state is going to work like the ones they know so when they see practically implemented fascism they struggle to comprehend it

It's a tale as old as time

It's the west's fault the Russians have deported nearly 1 million Ukrainians

The referendums aren't everything there's polling as well and they all show the same result

Just say you selectively care about self-determination when it reinforces your view that the West ultimately is a force for good in the world

That's how u do it make up an argument when u have nothing to say about another

951,000 Ukrainians

They won't. They favor the state over the individual

they forcibly deported native Crimean Tatars and Immigrated Russians to Crimea then the "polls" show it favors Russia, yeah no s***

they doing this in Donbass rn as well, that's not a legitimate referendum

That's rich coming from people defending the right of the Ukrainian state over the territory of the Donbas over the will of its citizens to not be part of Ukraine

So give it to Turkey? I could agree with that

If your idea of a legitimate referendum involves deporting one of the nations oldest minorities, bringing in Russians, ballot stuffing and military roaming the streets then jesus christ

Russians cant do democracy in Russia let alone in Ukraine

Who did they deport my guy? The deportation of Crimean Tatars happened under Stalin you acting like Putin did it right before the referendum or smth

guys didn't you know being authoritarian and imperialistic is allowed if you were socialist

Now we bringing up socialism!!! Crazy how good mfs itt are at changing the topic when the facts are going against their narrative lol

'The people of tel aviv don't want to live under palestine'

You see where this stupid logic takes you?

Not me. I think those areas should go to the state which is favored by the population. I dont know how succesful Russian tactics to change opinion there were or what they were so don't have an opinion on the issue

didn't you just mention Stalin above me?

Soviets were doing to Crimea what Russia is doing to Donbass and I said it's from their playbook to forcibly remove people and repopulate to stage these fake polls and referendums

it's obvious that all these soviet symbols also represent a part of their imperialism and oppression, that's why the Ukrainians are removing their statues and Russians are raising it's flag

considering all the crimes being committed one would understand why Ukrainians would rather die than get taken over by Russia

it's a risk not worth taking

That's such an idiotic comparison and you know that too, if u advocate for giving crimean tatars the right to return or other compensation that's great, but it wouldn't be enough of a change in demographics to change the will of the majority of crimeans who wanna be part of russia

Yeah I said that Stalin did it not Putin, not that it was good that stalin did that

damn i forgot how bad ur reading comprehension was i wont make the mistake of trying to engage w u again

this is an insane a***ogy wtf