only one song here focuses on d**** mind you. think all these guys are great and interesting. dont know how u got any of this out of anyone mentioned.

Melodies nice, and production is fire (new david bowie sounds like mbdtf loosie meets victorian era drill) and i f*** with the content.

Things changed (rip his sis) had me intrigued.

Talking 2 a ghost has a lyric mentioning pouring mud lol.

Not that specific che song you posted but that’s not…like foreign subject matter in his material.

" a lyric mentioning pouring mud" doesnt= the focus of the song is d****. and yea exactly its not in the che song. so yes its a dismissive oversimplification that comes off like mans didnt even hear the music posted

But you do realize that’s cherrypicking if someone can easily scroll to another song on his catalog or that album and hear a song where d*** use is the center of said song.

And you dont know if said poster is familiar with the artists you listed already or not and just might not be a fan.

The thing is, we can cherrypick everytime an artist gets vulnerable then I’d just say “nah travis isnt ai music just listen to coffee bean.”

And imo folks like a jim or a 454 or a MIKE I dont gotta do cherrypicking to see the substance.

real also i made a post here about the content. I forgot to include also the cover tells this same story and shows all the themes hes tryna connect, and his story seems to be in itself a way to show themes in the black british experience

-

Like some artists you like, niggas just arent gonna be a fan of.

I been singing the praises of Kenny Mason and Paris Texas for years on here. Some folks just arent gonna be fans of the same artists you like.

And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Quoted the wrong post lol but someone in the jim thread posted the reference that cover was based off. That’s real dope s***.

Also historically, I hate afrobeat mash ups of african american classics, but the way they did Missin You on sos was tasteful

its not cherrypicking, i say EVEN osamason in the OP post because part of the point is to show it where it isnt expected, not to say osamason as an artist is a vulnerable artist. Its several dif ends of the spectrum, i say this in the op. For che, his rare vulnerability adds an aspect of depth to his album, as i pointed out, and is pretty well written at times.

The key word here is “rare” and is it fair to say as a listener, some prefer said vulnerability to more than just rare?

You can prefer that, hence why i provide a wide variety and explicitly point out how its used in that unique way there yknow. as i said its to demonstrate a spectrum of where its found outside of obvious people like MIKE. Nino paid for example all his music is like that, hecne why i say ___'s career. to show it can be found in interesting places and used in dif places.

So why can some users agree with some of those artists you mentioned and simply not agree with others?

You mentioned a lotta artists lol.

im trying to have mans talk with me about it as a collective, not cherrypick the artists that im not tryna say are overall vulnerable artists and paint it all as one way because of them. thats the issue. I included the osamason song cuz it surprised me and I wanted to share writing that i felt was pretty good for an artist who doesnt specialize in that at all. Hence why I included an asterisk for him, carti, and yeat. I kinda made the first sentence for that, i thought it would be interesting to look into that didnt think it would be taken that way. even then id expect people to parse like oh yeah this yes but this no or something if they believe that.

I wanna highlight where it isn’t recognized in artists that’s appeal don’t rest on their subject matter or are perceived that way

real af

my rebuttal to that is

My question overall is why do those artists/a lot of artists in this new gen feel like they can't just do that s*** more?

Like Carti/any of these other artists of the "underground" that have a relative following could easily do some rage version of "save me" if they wanted to.

And of course the street rappers that specialize in "pain rap" that's their whole forte. I think the knock on a lot of them is just the production can become a bit stagnant. (e.g. Youngboy for example, dirty iyanna, nevada, and letter 2 big dump prolly my fav of his catalog but that's cause he branched out to do something different)

Think for a lot of us old f***s, some of the production also turns us off from the actual dope s*** that these new kids do be saying

Ur making some rly good points here to talk about and i think thsi is where its interesting i wanna explore this if u dont mind reading. If u do ill condense it from now on.

well for one id say you have a abundance of it right now for the current wave, though not for rage so much:

Jim legxacy, MIKE, Fakemink, Lil tony,Nino Paid, Mckinley Dixon, as you said, NBA Youngboy as you said, 454, navy blue, redveil, doechii, veeze, feng, untiljapan, babyface ray all either have multiple records on every release or every album is full of it at this point. (veeze less than the others, forgot MIKE debuted a while ago but he was young af and he got WAYY more popular recently, I could even include JID tbh because forever story is his real debut album to me but i wont)

for two, ill start by saying a lot of these guys are producers. Fakemink, Prettifun, Che, Xaviersobased, Jim legxacy, YT, jace, Edward Skeletrix, 454, MIKE, Ken Carson, Yeat, Lil Tecca started out as producers and produce a good amount of their stuff, leading to a lot more of a sonic focus for some of them. if you mean moreso the rage sphere,some artists just dont focus on that and i think thats okay, its not the focus of their music and they are really new artists, Future was in the game for 9 years and __ projects before he made save me, and 7 before he made HNDRXX. He was like, 8 projects deep before mosnter. me posting those examples is to show that even with artists who dont really specialize nor focus there, they do it at times and its effective when they do.

However, I think its completely fine if theres more space for people who are wayy more focused on the SONICS rather than the lyrics, or also just mostly finding dif funny or hard ways to use their lyrics. I think thats a good space to have, as the balance is what matters to most i feel and honestly i dont always wanna hear that. I feel like yeat's 2093, or maybe Che's Rest In bass is a good example of their takes on a monster or save me type deviation (rest in bass in a more far fetched way but you get me). Prettifun so far has 1 or 2 songs a project really opening up even.

To answer your question also for them, its just basically yea its probably those artists post young thug and the tradition of the (kinda) trap scene simply just enjoy expressing their creativity through sonics, melodics, the audio experience intuitively.

For three

Yea i agree, i do think a lot of the beats and presentation is what puts people off, alongside the vocal processing and form of melodicism. Especially for someone like che. For people like youngboy id agree, thats why the 2019-2020 street rap wave whole it had a lot of lyricism, I hated because it was sonically boring and really samey. Thats kinda why im in love with specifically the 2023-2025 wave, as to me what i personally value most in music is uniqueness and creativity thru all forms, and ive never had an issue with abrasiveness, I think also theres established like forms of how experimentation or vulnerability are executed that older guys need for it to connect to them. Also I mean, if you look at the early blog era, you still had yung lean, lil b, migos, wiz khalifa, spaceghostpurpp etc etc who fit that to an extent its just they fit more conventional forms of rap music and the way they rap. Those guys also being the ones who really are grandfathers of the scene rage and the ug is in.

With the ug guys also for example, they dont gaf about hits nor being niche nor even labels it seems, this current wave seems to be pretty anti label and just want to be as authentic to their own expression as possible. It seems inherently intuitive and building off the most impactful stuff for them. Which, isnt out the ordinary for their lineage, they just have more exposure now than their lineage and carti is the most popular guy out said lineage.

If we wanna get deeper, Trap's subject matter was born out of a rebellion against actually conventional form of Hip-Hop and what is seen as good lyricism in its roots if you go far back enough, as a wholesale rejection of critical acclaim and commercialism, as a purposeful choice of southern music at the time, to embrace excess. It's also like the model of how music is now.

Theres also the thing of like, Future's influence and just how the way people rap is so different, as the melodic aspect is just so fundamentally different and so are the beats than how it would be done in the past. I would also like more vulnerable HNDRXX like offerings from people in general, its my fav album from future and one of my fav of all time, def.

Its true that they b cosplaying but i would look beyond dudes like nett or xavier towards dudes like rexv2 or teezus or even kynlary for genuine good lyrics

Or ayerp he fire too

yea exactly hes not lyrical per se, its moreso just swaggy s*** and looking to the clouds. i feel like xavier just be talking about his day and random s*** lol I dont think he has much of a d*** focus other than smoking a LOT of weed. Nett is NOT lyrical in any sense def cant look there, i needa tap into who u mentioned

Yea they cool for the vibe an sum clever bars but substance is prolly lacking. Not to say all the new rappers lack substance, i could list dozens who have that

na u 100% right

Good thread

dawg i didnt know till right now CHE IS 18 YEARS OLD

I actually mostly agree with the premise of your thread, but starting off with Yeat—who's music post-2022 has been mostly devoid in terms of subject matter—is baffling especially when you were quicker to dismiss someone like Lone's lyrics.

i just feel like if your saying this you havent payed attention to 2093 the specific project im mentioning. which is his most substantive project. Whole album is about road to sobriety,bitterness and mental health issues. If someone disagrees disagree off something based in content not just "yeat pshhh f*** off"

the order wasnt that important to me anyways.

I wouldn't dismiss lone per se he has his moments, i mean i love lone its just i dont think he has like a lot of very revealing dark songs beyond love songs yknow. If you disagree tho show me examples ofc i might be missing s***

Hmm