What are you even talking about

You argue yourself into circles. I replied about the number of managers point because you thought you had a “gotcha!” moment, and now you’re waffling about some nonsense about Benfica and Da Zerbi (what?)
——
NOBODY - and I mean NOBODY - in this thread disagrees with you about the fact that this club has hideous infrastructure.

However, that does not mean that the manager gets some blank cheque credit in perpetuity. You HAVE to hold the manager accountable. You simply do.

I don’t know what weird managerial utopia you live in where it’s everybody’s fault but ten Hag’s — that just isn’t how it works.

The club structure can be hideous, and ten Hag can have done a poor job. Both of those things are happening.

I genuinely don’t know how you don’t grasp this

Because you guys only respond to repetition i will repeat myself again.

No change of a manager will bring you the desired results. I promise you this. Change another manager and have the patience to wait it out another 2 years.

Almost all the things you THINK are Ten Hag’s fault stem from the board. This is not on excuse this is actually a plain fact that i can elaborate on if you’re actually serious.

Sure it seems I’m defending Ten Hag from criticism but i don’t defend him against the in game criticism, i defend him from the BLAME that doesn’t address the root problem or cause. He is never the start or the end of United’s ills until a change higher up happens.

You cannot hold a manager responsible for “his” transfer strategy

You cannot hold a manager responsible for squad strength and depth

You cannot hold a manager responsible for players surviving 5 other managers who are still reluctant to train or run properly

These problems stem from deeper issues. It’s a boring observation perhaps but you and so many of your kindred fans keep hammering the gaffer about results and style of play when that should NEVER be the main focus at this stage. United have let problems run amok and no manager can simply handle a dressing room by his own with as little support and direction.

Ten hag made his own bed by continuing to praise & wilfully back those who’ve caused us so many problems before & now after him

man, I think you need a timeout.

its ok that ETH sucks. just let it go. it will free you.

we all wanted him to work out. like 90% of this thread was excited for the hire over Poch.

it hasn't worked out. which is fine, its a tough job. but hold folks accountable the way we do the glazers and the players. a lot of elements are at fault.

nobody has disagreed that the club structure sucks. you can have a poor club structure, and bad players, and poor managers. they're not all a result of one another.

that's why hes getting so little sympathy imo. what you say catches up to you eventually when you need support.

basic human relationship stuff. you can't lie forever, and not have it catch up with you.

you can if you keep succeeding, but when s*** goes off the tracks, you're gonna get questioned extra hard on what you've said.

also be2ye like read through everyones comments lol. or the last 10 years. its never been about results. always has been about building something long term and seeing progress.

when ETH wilts on what he was brought in to do (play good football), and shows no tactical identity for 1.5 years, its really hard to defend him.

although you do a semi-decent job at it, I assume you are a distant relative.

This club is going nowhere because they still haven't turned over a new page since 2013.

Why is Fergie still lingering around the club, turning up to Carrington and Old Trafford on a regular basis? Scholes, GNev (esp him), Keane have all turned into media parasites leaking stuff from the room to further destabilize things in public and increase their social media presence.

Everyone now knows that Ten Hag's time with the club is over. He's just playing out the string of matches he has left before they sack him in January.

The only way to move forward is with a manager who is able to shut out all the extracurricular noise and get rid of everyone who has been here for too long or is extended for too long.

Wrong.

Ten Hag cannot clear out an entire team to the magnitude that United needs. This means he ultimately will suffer to make compromises.

You will ofcourse say this makes him look weak or at fault but that tells me you’re silently hoping for a miracle instead of searching for a longterm solution.

Nope sorry

Marcus isn’t the only winger we have yet still plays regardless

So yes, he made his bed by continuing to stick by the virus

Rashford is on insane wages he can’t afford another Sancho drama while making the club pay for it.

It’s not as simple as you make it sound. Bench Rashford and he will stink out the dressing room and recruit his buddies against the gaffer

you are acting like ETH is a child. ive literally never seen someone give someone less accountability/responsibility, quite impressive tbh.

I don’t think you understand when i say you guys focus on results too much.

Results, as in: wanting a style of play with a poor mismatch of players that also are injured or don’t take orders well half the time.

It’s just that demands by fans are so misplaced and so high at the wrong times it inevitably leads to fan fury, unnecessary pressure on players and the coach and encouraging player power when they refuse to perform and get to blame Mr. Manager.

Wanting good for your club was never the issue. The problem is to temper your ego and realize the serious mess you are in as a club as you try to hope for the best.

This isn’t something as simple as “the gaffer refuses to play ajax ball”

All i’m doing is use logic.

It’s easy to say what sucks, can you explain why it sucks tho?

“Ten Hag can’t manage” is not an answer

we've done so numerous times. you seem to not wanna hear it.

read through the last 5 pages and you will see dozens of reasons why ETH is not the one.

not a single user ive seen has blatantly just said ETH sucks, that's pretty boring.

this is the guy (Kaveh) who broke the Kane to Bayern news before everyone this summer.

idk about his history from reports prior to that, but just throwing it out that he did get that one right.

I’ve only argued the ones i disagreed with.

So far all i’ve read:

• Rashford’s performance should’ve been publicly adressed
• midfielders being unpredictable during big games
• he should’ve never accepted the job if he knew structure was bad
• losing against the top 8 away is unacceptable, he sucks and needs to go
• benching players he shouldn’t bench, letting players play he shouldn’t
• letting players, who should’ve been sold by the Gaffer personally, back on the field
• poor/no style of play after 1,5 years
• results driven honky
• bald
• fraud
• should’ve given Sancho a warm hug

All of that is true bar the last one

1 point from 33 away (the 1 came from a spurs interim gaffer we were 2–0 up against) and he’s worth backing and giving even more than the 500m he’s already been given

Can’t think why people don’t agree

Thus coming back to:

United fans are deluded to rather deal with surface level details/results instead of treating the underlying glaring issues at the club

dunno where he even got the last one from. hindsight is 20-20 but super clear and obvious that Sancho was mishandled. no hugs necessary, just keep it out of the press conference.

quite simple. unless you're prime Mourinho and can take on your divas and win, don't start the battle. poor man management ultimately and lack of awareness of his standing (lack thereof) in football by ETH.

Sancho shouldn’t have been a public statement. We all agree there.

Meanwhile your kindred spirit argues he should’ve treated Rashford the same..

oh and you left off all the transfer stuff. yep we've talked about it you can think that its on the glazers/arnold etc. they're at fault for sure, as is ETH when it comes to getting who he wants in, and those he wants out.

we've outspent every single PL club this summer and last.

You know where the core issue with that lies…

Don’t circle back again and again

why do you even argue for ETH to stay? hes been here 1.5 years and done nothing.

if he at least showed a glimmer of hope via a press conference, or a spell of play, or something. then it could make some sense.

like what are you clinging on to? Ajax? he said we're not trying to play like Ajax either.

if ETH stays another year what is changing.

This isn’t about ETH staying. This is about doing what is necessary for United to get back on top.

The need for fans to pile on the manager as a scapegoat needs to go.

There needs to be a focus on actual primary concerns and not a flavor of the week tabloid topic to pick from and bicker about.

United will only grow when we start placing the responsibility on their respective bearers and not relenting focus during the next newscycle about player drama or coach statements