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  • May 15, 2022
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    1 reply
    Scratchin Mamba
    · edited

    Scroll down for tldr

    First I’ll say that I really like the album a lot regardless of my critique. I still think Kendrick is arguably the greatest rapper of all time, but that doesn’t mean his social commentary always hits the mark, and that’s what I’m gonna focus on here. I don’t think he has some nefarious agenda or anything either, I believe he always had the best intentions, but had unfair expectations of what he could accomplish with the message in his art to achieve social change, which eventually led him down this path of a highly individualist COPE of his own perceived failure in bettering society.

    There are some songs on the album where through deeply reflecting on his own personal experiences he actually did come to some great insights and points of social commentary, songs like Father Time, Mother I Sober and Auntie Diaries are great examples of that. Without explicitly naming those terms, he discusses things like patriarchy, colonialism, sexual violence etc. in a thoughtful and accessible way. But it’s when he zooms out of his own personal experiences and looks at SOCIETY from a distance and his own role in (not) bettering society where he gets lost in the ideological illusions of idealism, individualism and a great man theory of history. I promise I’m not tryna over intellectualize s*** and I will try to explain what I mean with as much clarity as I can.

    After my first couple of listens of the album I realized Kendrick probably has one of the most interesting character arcs outlined in his discography. The shift from Section.80 to this album isn’t lost on anybody, including Kendrick himself. The change from “we gon be alright” to “I chose me I’m sorry” is a pretty dramatic shift, but it’s in my opinion an unnecessary shift that ultimately stems from how he misunderstood the problems that he addressed in his music throughout his career.

    I think if you want to pinpoint where exactly this shift happened the most, there are two important moments, firstly the period in between TPAB and DAMN. and the 2020 BLM protests. Kendrick told us many times on this album that he is NOT our savior, but he had to convince himself of that before he told us that, in Mortal Man where he finishes the poem throughout TPAB, he said:

    “A war that was based on apartheid and discrimination
    Made me wanna go back to the city and tell the homies what I learned
    The word was respect
    Just because you wore a different gang color than mine's
    Doesn't mean I can't respect you as a black man
    Forgetting all the pain and hurt we caused each other in these streets
    If I respect you, we unify and stop the enemy from killing us
    But I don't know, I'm no mortal man
    Maybe I'm just another nigga”

    From his perceived failure he found out that he was not a savior and in fact just another nigga. That reality check took a lot of the hope out of him, and I do sympathize with it, but it was because of an unfounded expectation based on a false conception of how social change is achieved. Namely through the propagation of certain ideas, and that a positive message spreading to individuals could bring about a positive change in society, if only it was that simple… This is what I mean with idealism. In reality it’s not the ideas of the people that need to be changed in order to prevent violence in impoverished communities, it’s the material conditions that need to change in order to take away the conditions that lead to that violence.

    But Kendrick thought he could make a change by spreading his idea of unity, being confronted with that failure was hard for him to take, and I think that’s why DAMN. had such a depressing tone throughout the album, especially with songs like YAH, FEEL and LUST. He also started to find the responsibility he felt to change the world overwhelming, but he wasn’t quite abandoning the responsibility altogether. “I feel like the whole world want me to pray for em, but who the f*** praying for me? ” is still not quite the same as “I chose me I’m sorry

    I think that was partly because of the 2020 BLM protests and how he got criticized for not doing enough, especially by Noname. That last verse on Mirror where he went “I chose me I’m sorry” in the hook was directed at her:

    “'Cause all of it's toxic
    Girl, I'm not relevant to givin' on profit
    Personal gain off my pain, it's nonsense
    Darlin', my demons is off the leash for a moshpit
    Baby, I just had a baby, you know she need me
    Workin' on myself, the counselin' is not easy
    Don't you point a finger, just to point a finger
    'Cause critical thinkin' is a deal-breaker
    Faith in one man is a ship sinking
    Do yourself a favor and get a mirror that mirror grievance
    Then point it at me so the reflection can mirror freedom
    She told me that she need me the most, I didn't believe her
    She even called me names on the post, the world can see it
    Jokes and gaslightin'
    Mad at me 'cause she didn't get my vote, she say I'm triflin'
    Disregardin' the way that I cope with my own vices
    Maybe it's time to break it off
    Run away from the culture to follow my heart”

    I actually mostly agree with what he’s saying here because I think the way noname went at Kendrick was completely out of pocket and that it was based on a false idea of Kendrick being a “savior”. But he gotta realize that he himself played a role in that as well. I would have liked to see him reflect more on his own responsibility in that, instead of just pointing the finger at those who may have unfairly deemed him to be some kind of failure without addressing how that happened. This is the problem with how he conceived of social change by a misconception that great men throughout history are the ones who spur social change, which explains his idolization of 2pac, to whom he pretty obviously saw himself as the next great man with the task of changing society for the better, or in other words, as a savior.

    The part that I take issue with is that he acts as if he had to choose between either being a savior, or just only being concerned with his own problems, as he said in Mirror: “Sorry I didn't save the world, my friend, I was too busy building mine again”. But here Kendrick presents us a false dichotomy, either be a savior, or just concern yourself with your own problems, since you cannot save the world anyway, there is a different option that Kendrick is omitting, you don’t have to choose between either extremes, but I think that’s because he was previously so invested in the other extreme. So I understand where he’s coming from, but I don’t think this is the right position to take, but who knows where his head will be at in a couple of years. I look forward to finding that out with his next album and until then I’ll be bumping Mr. Morale & The Big Steppers

    TLDR: I can definitely sympathize with Kendrick’s feeling of disappointment in not achieving what he genuinely wanted to achieve with the message in his music, but it was ultimately based on his misconception of the problems that he wanted to solve because of his understanding of history mostly being determined by great men (or as he says, “saviors”) propagating ideas that changed material conditions. When confronted with his own inevitable failure as one of those great men, he instead went to the other extreme and distanced himself from being concerned with the world's problems altogether and embraced a highly individualistic mindset in just worrying about “building his own world” instead, but those are of course not the only choices.

    First off, I read the entire thing. It's 2 AM and I'd probably say more but I'm tired.

    I said to someone after The Heart part 5 dropped, and I don't mean this as disrespect or to say he's dumb, but Kendrick isn't that smart. He doesn't consider the whole picture in a lot of his takes, and Mr. Morale kinda proved that to me. He's a lot of pyrotechnics and that allows him to have a huge fan base in the rap world, especially when his songs can be catchy at times.

    I enjoyed like 6 or 7 songs tho, which is nearly half. Maybe more of it will grow on me. Or maybe I'll like it less over time. Either way it's an interesting album from a polarizing figure.

  • May 15, 2022
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    1 reply
    rather late

    S*** just artistic expression so why judge it like its a political essay

    Yall dont do the same for kanyes dumb ass views or drakes s***

    This is cap there are whole video essays about Kanye's decisions

  • May 15, 2022
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    1 reply
    naurrr

    This is cap there are whole video essays about Kanye's decisions

    Same with Drake lol

    It's not about Kendrick's views being so much worse or anything, his work throughout his career is just more about social issues so it makes sense to talk about his music in that light

  • May 15, 2022
    Steak

    Okay first off, youre throwing too many big words at me. Because I don't understand them, imma take it as disrespect. Watch your mouth @op

  • May 15, 2022
    ·
    edited

    I still believe grand part of this album narrative was drawn from people calling him out during the protests in 2020. Bunch of people saying “where you are” on Twitter shouldn’t trigger you lmfao

    he certainly doesn’t care about this but his
    lengthy absences adds to how people view him as this “voice of people”.

    DAMN was also filled with raps about failing to change society with TPAB but he can only do so much when people just care about hard beats.

    I still applaud this nigga for being to look outside the filter and reflect on his own self, not everyone can do that.

  • May 15, 2022
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    edited
    ·
    2 replies

    OP this is a well thought out post and critique from the view of a Kendrick fan.

    A lot of what you’ve said is bang on in terms of the divide and the issue.

    Where I disagree with you is that ideals are even more important than the material conditions. The ideal comes first, the act comes second. The progress after the right act has been made.

    But that’s why it is so critical to not go down the road Kendrick has gone down. He’s known he’s a hypocrite but has played the hypocrite all at the same time.

    So much of his musical focus is on racism and in a black and white fashion that it cannot breathe any area of grey. How can you solve societal issues when you still think you’re a slave, when you still think other people of different skin are the issue.

    To even view the world on race or topical points about race is racism. To blame poverty, crime and ignorance on socio-political talking points about group-centric issues is the height of ignorance.

    If you want to heal the divide you can’t see division everywhere. This has always been my main critique of Kendrick: he is not touching on universal things. They’re hard-nosed and political and he is being led astray just as many others are with this culture.

    It’s one thing to touch on in an album, but the thrust of his ideology never changes and hence he’s not really growing beyond a certain border. This is where individualism comes. To think as a human being, not just as a black man from Compton or any other group-centric false ideal about reality. To be conscious is to realise all is one.

  • May 15, 2022
    Steak

    Nah but I actually agree. He sized himself up as the leader of a revolution since Section 80 and now he's confused why mfs looking at him as a savior ?

    i feel like it’s just maturity and growth. all artists want to feel like their art and what they do can make an impact and change the world and stuff and that’s natural. he’s now realizing that that’s a pipe dream and theres just only much he can do as one man with his music. he’s also still fighting his own demons like the rest of us.

  • Nessy 🦎
    May 15, 2022
    ·
    1 reply

    From the last tracks on the album i get the feeling he got overwhelmed with his role as a savior (both in social change and in rap) when personal s*** like grief having kids family trauma etc started messing with his life.

    He realized he didnt have the strength to both save people and save himself and had to act quick to fix himself before his kids grew up so he wouldnt pass his trauma on to them. Like i dont see it as him being disappointed he didnt instill change but more like he gave up before really trying, to focus on his family.

    Now i wonder if he would have confessed so much personal stuff on this album if noname didnt call him out first

  • May 15, 2022

    It’s funny thinking about the type of people a***yzing hip hop nowadays and the perspective they come from

    Interesting that a rap song from a black American can spark this type of discourse

    S/o Kendrick 💯

  • May 15, 2022
    ·
    2 replies

    WARNING: ASS POST

  • May 15, 2022
    DevilOrAngel

    Amazing post op.

    I agree with your sentiment that he felt emotionally overwhelmed to be the voice of the people, and as you said he had an idolization of Pac but then has the line “2pac dead gotta think for yourself” which I now realize may be directed at himself….fuck. Layer after layer after layer this f***ing album has

    This really is his most personal album

  • May 15, 2022
    UIP

    WARNING: ASS POST

    I wouldn't be talking crayz if i were you but lemme not derail the thread

  • May 15, 2022
    ·
    2 replies
    Nessy

    From the last tracks on the album i get the feeling he got overwhelmed with his role as a savior (both in social change and in rap) when personal s*** like grief having kids family trauma etc started messing with his life.

    He realized he didnt have the strength to both save people and save himself and had to act quick to fix himself before his kids grew up so he wouldnt pass his trauma on to them. Like i dont see it as him being disappointed he didnt instill change but more like he gave up before really trying, to focus on his family.

    Now i wonder if he would have confessed so much personal stuff on this album if noname didnt call him out first

    I think it's that too, but Kendrick was definitely not happy with the reception of TPAB, he rated it last of all his albums, said it wasn't accessible enough, possibly bc he felt like his message didn't connect like he wanted it to.

    But it's not just that he's telling us "hey I'm taking a break, I'll be back in a few years talking about the sociopolitical and economic state of the worls, gotta go to therapy first", I think he himself doesn't know where to go from here, or at least he hasn't really expressed that clearly on MMTBS.

    I think there's also some frustration with people who claim to have the same goals as him, Kendrick never really talked about fake activists, political correctness etc like that before DAMN. I think there's a little resentment there too honestly, which is understandable when he got publicly attacked like that while he was apparently going through his own problems at the time.

    And he still did present that dichotomy between being a savior or fixing yourself up, maybe that's because of that frustration and isn't like some well thought out stance, who knows, I don't think Kendrick himself knows honestly

  • May 15, 2022
    Visionary

    OP this is a well thought out post and critique from the view of a Kendrick fan.

    A lot of what you’ve said is bang on in terms of the divide and the issue.

    Where I disagree with you is that ideals are even more important than the material conditions. The ideal comes first, the act comes second. The progress after the right act has been made.

    But that’s why it is so critical to not go down the road Kendrick has gone down. He’s known he’s a hypocrite but has played the hypocrite all at the same time.

    So much of his musical focus is on racism and in a black and white fashion that it cannot breathe any area of grey. How can you solve societal issues when you still think you’re a slave, when you still think other people of different skin are the issue.

    To even view the world on race or topical points about race is racism. To blame poverty, crime and ignorance on socio-political talking points about group-centric issues is the height of ignorance.

    If you want to heal the divide you can’t see division everywhere. This has always been my main critique of Kendrick: he is not touching on universal things. They’re hard-nosed and political and he is being led astray just as many others are with this culture.

    It’s one thing to touch on in an album, but the thrust of his ideology never changes and hence he’s not really growing beyond a certain border. This is where individualism comes. To think as a human being, not just as a black man from Compton or any other group-centric false ideal about reality. To be conscious is to realise all is one.

    GKMC but the universal version was the progression I imagined before TPAB came out. He did have a lot of great universal perspectives on this new album though.

  • May 15, 2022
    Crack Palm Stepper

    Just letting you know if you’re still down to share?not rushing btw

    Yo lemme get back to u rn before i forget again

    My post was based on a Marxist method of a***ysis of history and historical materialism which puts the material central to its a***ysis of society by looking at classes different relations to labor and property. Without getting into too much detail, Engels sums up why this a***ysis is so essential nicely:

    "Marx discovered the law of development of human history: the simple fact, hitherto concealed by an overgrowth of ideology, that mankind must first of all eat, drink, have shelter and clothing, before it can pursue politics, science, art, religion, etc."

    If you want some actual read a book on it the German Ideology by Marx is probably the best work on historical materialism to start with, but you can look up some videos on youtube too for sure.

    Besides some good books on impotencence of media, art etc and how it gets coopted by the same powers it might set out to fight against are Capitalist Realism by Mark Fisher and Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord.

    There's really a lot more to read if you wanna get the full picture but I don't wanna overwhelm you lol and maybe it's just these particular topics you're interested in, lmk if u got any questions tho

  • May 15, 2022

    He is not up savior

  • May 15, 2022
    ·
    1 reply

    36 mins

    I misremembered it he put it second to last to section 80

  • May 15, 2022
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    1 reply
    Scratchin Mamba

    36 mins

    I misremembered it he put it second to last to section 80

    Forgot the link lol

  • May 15, 2022
    Scratchin Mamba

    I think it's that too, but Kendrick was definitely not happy with the reception of TPAB, he rated it last of all his albums, said it wasn't accessible enough, possibly bc he felt like his message didn't connect like he wanted it to.

    But it's not just that he's telling us "hey I'm taking a break, I'll be back in a few years talking about the sociopolitical and economic state of the worls, gotta go to therapy first", I think he himself doesn't know where to go from here, or at least he hasn't really expressed that clearly on MMTBS.

    I think there's also some frustration with people who claim to have the same goals as him, Kendrick never really talked about fake activists, political correctness etc like that before DAMN. I think there's a little resentment there too honestly, which is understandable when he got publicly attacked like that while he was apparently going through his own problems at the time.

    And he still did present that dichotomy between being a savior or fixing yourself up, maybe that's because of that frustration and isn't like some well thought out stance, who knows, I don't think Kendrick himself knows honestly

    Wouldn't read too much into s*** like this. Artists looooove downplaying their most acclaimed works. See: Ye with MBDTF where he can't decide if it's the best album ever or the worst album he ever made

  • May 15, 2022
    ·
    edited
    Visionary

    OP this is a well thought out post and critique from the view of a Kendrick fan.

    A lot of what you’ve said is bang on in terms of the divide and the issue.

    Where I disagree with you is that ideals are even more important than the material conditions. The ideal comes first, the act comes second. The progress after the right act has been made.

    But that’s why it is so critical to not go down the road Kendrick has gone down. He’s known he’s a hypocrite but has played the hypocrite all at the same time.

    So much of his musical focus is on racism and in a black and white fashion that it cannot breathe any area of grey. How can you solve societal issues when you still think you’re a slave, when you still think other people of different skin are the issue.

    To even view the world on race or topical points about race is racism. To blame poverty, crime and ignorance on socio-political talking points about group-centric issues is the height of ignorance.

    If you want to heal the divide you can’t see division everywhere. This has always been my main critique of Kendrick: he is not touching on universal things. They’re hard-nosed and political and he is being led astray just as many others are with this culture.

    It’s one thing to touch on in an album, but the thrust of his ideology never changes and hence he’s not really growing beyond a certain border. This is where individualism comes. To think as a human being, not just as a black man from Compton or any other group-centric false ideal about reality. To be conscious is to realise all is one.

    Where I disagree with you is that ideals are even more important than the material conditions. The ideal comes first, the act comes second. The progress after the right act has been made.

    The issue with this statement is that humans are not foundationally influenced by their ideals. Their ideals are shaped every day by the material conditions they experience, and those ideals are then reinvested into shaping that base material relationship.

    A Latino farm worker in the Central Valley has a far different set of ideals from a white banker in New York. The morals they hold, the way their ideals would work in a hypothetical system, etc

  • May 15, 2022
    ·
    2 replies

    Kendrick is at a hollow point of his life and it resulted in a hollow record where most of it feels forced/cliché—this isn't gonna get better. He'll just get defensive and deem it a personality.

  • May 15, 2022
    ·
    2 replies
    UIP

    WARNING: ASS POST

    Literally white

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