I see others tried to talk to you off the high horse. I won’t bother, just want to let you now you’re an idiot

youre arguing that the people who don't even see you as a real human being are "center-left" so you can win an argument in a random ktt thread. get some self-respect plz.

anyone who’s pro Israel is pro genocide imo, even with the caveats. my girl told me shut up cause i was calling her roommate Brother Jew mockingly after he was defending Israel with caveats (he’s Jewish)

? If you think anyone who believes we can achieve equality under a capitalist system thinks palestinians are less than human you have lost the entire plot

When push comes to shove that “center left” that you described has more allegiance to the far right than it does to the “far left” and we’ve seen it happen so many times throughout history including literally right now. Liberals (especially the ones we have) are comfortably on the right

We don’t want any part of your Masonic “plots” lil bro.

nah for sure. to clarify, there a lot of people who have the wrong facts and arent necessarily pro palestinian liberation but just think what israel is doing is really bad but also what hamas is doing makes it impossible to resolve, and that both are killing the palestinian people and if palestine took over the whole land it would lead to harmful s***. i dont think i shouldve said pro israel, its more people who are like "oh its complicated" and just not explicitly pro palestine. those people are just wrong, ive talked to those ppl before.

They aren’t liberals anymore . half of the country shifted to the right

Those “on the fence” liberals are full red now , and the reds are in trump delirium land.

you literally argued that their are "left-wing" zionists. only person losing the plot here is you. I dont accept zionists as representatives of "the left" and yes their is a link between capitalism as a global system of oppression, the mercantile capitalism of israel specifically, and the dispossession of Arab land as a means of capitalist accumulation.

do you really just think every palestinian communist guerilla is a moron? people have been thinking about the national question in this manner since the late 60s. it was long understood that israel was an extension of the overall capitalist-imperialist agenda in the middle east and that a free palestine would need to be a socialist and plurinational state.

i think Israel establishing a 16 year blockade that tanked Gaza’s economy and further impoverishing the already 70% impoverished Palestinian society with funds that they acquired on behalf of Palestinians in 2023 while in the same year killing the most Palestinians they ever killed since 1967, did a lot more harm than Hamas’ issues with Israel by which Israel is using as an excuse to further exacerbate their atrocities. there’s no seeing the good in this lmao

kendrick lamar

i wasnt talking about zionists to clarify becuase i mightve sounded like that, im saying there r people who have the wrong facts and as such may not be pro palestine\ian liberation, you should know propoganda is very strong. many people have an idea that hamas is literally hiding in hospitals and using human shields and disguises themselves with people and israel is just f***ing up in how they approach it. there r people who believe that palestine was never a thing and was just a british colony and a ottoman colony before and they just renamed part of the land and let jews go there. obviously those people are wrong, but you dont have to be pro fascist or pro imperialism to believe that.

no i dont think they are morons, ive alr told u i dont agree with communism i just think they are misguided about the communist thing. again i dont care to argue whether my view on communism or your view is correct. thats not my argument, im saying just because it was a means of capitalist accumulation, again, does not mean it is impossible for someone to believe you can work within the system of capitalism without doing that. they would disagree with you that that it is exclusive to countries under capitalist systems. thats great you wholeheartedly claim that it is, but those people who would disagree with you do not believe that. they are not pro those things as they do not believe it is necessary or exclusive to the system they want s*** to work in.

yes your right and i agree. typa ppl im talking about, wouldnt support this if you told them, they would say its bad, but might not know fr. propoganda is strong and we live in a age of misinformation and this type of information is deliberately supressed.

Worst thread in a while and no it’s not only because of OP

Nah not really. Only in the major metropolitan cities but the vast majority of black express moderate to right leaning ideals

Exaxtly. Why do you think so many hip hop media figures have made a direct right wing turn?

i think a thread like this requires a bit more nuance or clarity than 'this genre should die'

if you said let's stop pretending most mainstream hiphop is inherently liberationary, i'd agree, but i don't think anybody has ever believed that

for sure

by the way if u send me ur discord or make another thread about o about socialism and capitalism and whether its good or not or what it allows ill engage if im in the mood but its just not what the topic is rn and was never my point. to be clear i literally live in jordan rn and am pro palestine. lol.

i didnt even go into why i dont believe in socialism or communism, i just, like the majority of the population including over 30 dont, and i think u can be left wing without that. entirely reasonable, normal thing for someone to say. the fact you have to resort to anything like this is so unecessary

op you’re supposed to be a Marxist yet you single out hip hop for adopting bourgeois values when all art forms are going to be bounded by the society an individual grew up in

is modern pop music that displays and promotes warped versions of how capital proliferates into our romantic lives and impacts how we form social bonds and the value we place on a partner? Treating love like a game and how much value you can extract out your partner to determine your worth?

Is country music talking about love for muh country and nation, specifically Amerikkka, not right wing when it exists ti provoke nostalgic feelings for a fictitious version of the empire that never existed?

this isn’t unique to hip hop, it just takes a different form, a lot of it having to do with it being produced by being growing up in the poorest and most distraught areas under occupation and threat of state violence.

you can simply just “abolish” an art form as it will still express itself whether you call it Hip Hop or not, whether it’s in the medium of a song or maybe some other medium, and whether it takes form in art or energy get put elsewhere outside art.

It didn’t get any better.

Someone typing out “black capitalism is already anti-establishment” completely unironically and seriously on here is absolutely insane