math fifty

3y

Did you miss the multiple times itt i literally said verbatim “fuck Israel” or the many times ive said it in this sxn

Obviously the west and the Israelies have f***ed over the palestinians for year but i dont think that justifies firing on nonmilitants and idk why thats such a crazy take to have

Scratchin Mamba

3y

You got info on times they killed Israeli hostages before genuinely would like to know

leif erikson

3y

is this you?

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3y

Sure they’re going to be more sympathetic to an Israeli, I’m saying it’s not due to “race”. And yes a large percentage of Israelis are of European origin but it’s simply a fact that the majority are Mizrahi or Sephardi and had been living in Morocco, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, etc for centuries or even millennia before 1948

OHMNI

3y

Presenting as white plays a factor . WTF are you talking about some of the people living in Israel are using a right to return and are within the diaspora but haven't spent their whole life living in Israel.

Be real with yourself here they are by definition white

Fries

3y

By that logic you can justify the murder of every single Israeli civilian, sorry man, not having it

Scratchin is correct in describing it as an 'excess', it's going too far in the name of a worthy cause, you seem to be arguing that any Israeli living in Israel should be murdered due to their inherent complicity with their nation's oppressive regime, I wonder if there's anything you wouldn't justify in the name of Palestine

This was a terrible move though even if you look at it strategically, it doesn't achieve anything tactically beyond sheer terror and playing into the Israeli narrative of Palestinians as being murderous barbarians. Because Western press coverage of the conflict treats Israel with the biggest pair of kid gloves ever, the constant murder and oppression perpetuated by the state is unknown to most people, but by doing something THIS audacious, support for Palestine is going to equal tacit support for killing innocent civilians at a music festival in the minds of a lot of people, it's an awful thing to do, and you can't tell me that the Palestinian liberation project benefitted from it in any way

OHMNI

3y

Presenting as white plays a factor . WTF are you talking about some of the people living in Israel are using a right to return and are within the diaspora but haven't spent their whole life living in Israel.

Be real with yourself here they are by definition white

krishna bound

3y

i have to assume hes talking pure numbers, where ashkenazi are 30% of the population - which while still huge and obv overrepresented in govt for obvious reasons - means like 70% of the country wouldnt fall under the label of white. i dont really think that means anything, but it is basically true that in the entire history of post-british mandate israel, the real problem has always been ashkenazi settlers specifically, its never been any other ethnic jewish group.

Offline

3y

Alright we’re just going in circles here but yes I agree that Ashkenazim are definitely white and that Israelis are definitely Western. What I disagree with is the idea that Middle Eastern Jews are “white” as opposed to “non-white” Palestinians - they do earn more sympathy in the West, but then it’s about culture or proximity, the same reason a one-off tragedy in Japan or Korea garners more sympathy than a decades-long civil war in Burma (although they are all “Asian”).

OHMNI

3y

then we are in full agreement

BnBallinToo

3y

You are lost. You say "hamas" like its a different entity that exists within Gaza, to somehow dislegitmize it. Hamas is just a political party with a military wing. IT IS Palestinians.

Palestinians were getting killed and oppressed everyday regardless if they attacked or not. You just didn't care enough to see it coz it wasnt Israelis getting killed before.

Expecting Palestinians to just accept complete oppression and suffering for decades without fighting back is expecting them to be unhuman.

Also there is literally no evidence that anybody was raped, also none of that dislegitmizes the fact Palestinians have every right to fight back.

NothingIs

3y

settlers are not civilians

krishna bound

3y

i have to assume hes talking pure numbers, where ashkenazi are 30% of the population - which while still huge and obv overrepresented in govt for obvious reasons - means like 70% of the country wouldnt fall under the label of white. i dont really think that means anything, but it is basically true that in the entire history of post-british mandate israel, the real problem has always been ashkenazi settlers specifically, its never been any other ethnic jewish group.

OHMNI

3y

Fair to some degree but on a basic level you show a white person a Israeli they will be more sympathetic to them than someone who in their opinion looks drastically different than they do or different practices and customs

Its the same way you are seeing and have seen people refer to Palestinians they speak on them as if they are less than human. Which they don't or wouldn't do to people that look closer in appearance to them

krishna bound

3y

i generally agree but i have to ask what your opinion is on non-jewish citizens of israel; especially like ethnic Druze, kurdish refugees, non-jewish arab, or mizrahi/sephardic jews who trace lineage to pre-settler israel but stayed in the region. i don't think it's as clear cut that they contribute to colonialism in the same manner as primary ashkenazi settlers - the entire region the israel occupation debate exists is literally because of ashkenazi alone. i think this is where i start to crack a little bit on questions of just mass genocide of israeli civilians because insurgents def arent doing racial profiling and the idea of them killing other arabs born on the opposite side of the wall who likely feel similar about settlers bothers me

Offline

3y

I believe that Mizrahim tend to be quite anti-Palestinian although I have no proof of that tbh

krishna bound

3y

i agree with you for the most part but i really think this again has more to do with white jews more than anything. i don't think the avg american can tell apart a mizrahi jew from a lighter skinned palestinian. that said i agree with you more on the cultural aspects - if you get past appearances than i do agree w you a lot of this really gets down to customs considered palatable to westerners vs seen as barbaric or exotic, which islam still is for the most part in their minds.

krishna bound

3y

i generally agree but i have to ask what your opinion is on non-jewish citizens of israel; especially like ethnic Druze, kurdish refugees, non-jewish arab, or mizrahi/sephardic jews who trace lineage to pre-settler israel but stayed in the region. i don't think it's as clear cut that they contribute to colonialism in the same manner as primary ashkenazi settlers - the entire region the israel occupation debate exists is literally because of ashkenazi alone. i think this is where i start to crack a little bit on questions of just mass genocide of israeli civilians because insurgents def arent doing racial profiling and the idea of them killing other arabs born on the opposite side of the wall who likely feel similar about settlers bothers me

krishna bound

3y

mizrahi lived in palestine prior to the creation of israel and prior to the existence of zionism at all. if i had to guess in terms of israeli anti-govt activism, i would assume almost all non-arab or non-druze activists are likely mizrahi

Fries

3y

Genuine question, not trying to bad faith here, but are you saying that if someone was proposing mass genocide of only the Ashkenazi citizens, you'd be open to it?

Offline

3y

Yes but Palestinian Jews are a quite small percentage, I mean people that come from Morocco or Iraq, who are a massive proportion of Israelis, I think Likud’s voter base is Mizrahi for example

Scratchin Mamba

3y

Yep