Melodicism is usually associated with emotion because it’s the easiest element to conjure feeling. It’s why people understand there’s sad chords and happy chords.

Okay? You can apply any emotion to any musical quality? You are pigeonholing melody into your preferred brand of melody. I'm not saying you're wrong for preferring it but by literal definition, melody has nothing to do with your emotions and any artist can apply any feel to any melody they want to

he could have done it probably but he chose not to its something i require from my goats

except iggy i guess

The Kinks have a great example of what you’re talking about. My mothers Kinks stan boyfriend showed it to me. It’s this one song I can’t remember the name of where he’s just basically calling a girl gross the whole time but it’s one of their most beautiful sounding songs melodically.

You can't deny Zappa's skill as a melodic writer. He does not fit the bill of how your personal GOATs may convey their melodies but that does not mean Zappa is not talented in that section. Just for other reasons

i dont think he could have done it. left almost all the seriousness to the music and i dont think he could have switched gears completely to write a lyric focused song that actually makes you want to cry

and of course leaving out the fact that his own voice wouldnt have been able to sing that kind of song well either, especially after his accident which made his voice deeper

yeah ray can turn anything into a beautiful melody (nowhere near one of their most beautiful sounding tho stahp)

lyrics have nothing to do with what im talking about :elon: you still dont get it

He definitely is a great melody writer. I understand what Elric means though. I think a good example for me would be Rivers Cuomo who I think is a genius melody writer but in execution about 70% of the time he makes whatever melodic elements that are there totally collapse. He’ll turn gold into s***.

im not saying its all about lyrics but more about the artist expressing the perspective. like obviously through the melody but still just a different kind of expression. songwriting vs composition

like Celluloid Heroes is more emotionally affecting to me because of the melody but the fact that its sung by him (and has good lyrics) makes it hit harder than if it was instrumental. whereas Zappa's occasionally beautiful melodies do not hit any harder when they are sung by an actual person vs an instrument

and the Kinks Living Room Light song too, the way its emotional, not because of the lyrics but it just feels different than someone writing from a jazz/classical totally instrumental p.o.v. idk

My point about that specifically was he sort of sabotages the song by handling the melody that way. It comes across insincere. It’s similar to what you seem to dislike about Zappa.

didnt even say its what you were talking about, i brought in the "lyrics focused" part as to why Zappa couldnt do it that kind of writing songs vs compositions

pretty sure this is a 0/10 song for Elric but i think the melody is amazing

This is what I'm talking about. It's so clear he's taking the piss which is a turnoff for some but the melody is there. Not everything has to be 'emotional' or super serious to be melodically well executed.

Yeah I think Elric is losing me, I don’t know what he means anymore. I figured lyrics totally had to play a role. That Living Room Lights example I thought was the perfect example. I can’t take the melody seriously on an emotional level because of how it’s executed. That melody on top of something serious would hit much harder.

melody on this one

The song title though

its not that i think lyrics necessarily play a big/main role, but it just feels different the fact that it has lyrics. like lyrics that were actually written with the song vs when Zappa wrote an amazing melody then slapped some lyrics on 6 years later

I get the same feeling I was talking about from some music in languages I don't understand. like I can tell its emotional even tho idk what theyre saying

i feel like Zappa and Ray have some overlap in the way they would roast certain corny members of society in their social commentary and satire but zappa just never conjured a melody he didnt intentionally turn ugly in some way or another. at least on the 60s albums, been too long since i heard much 70s stuff.

I totally agree with you but I do also resonate with someone who feels disappointed that a good melody was wasted on a joke. It’s kind of like when I hear a certain pop song performed by a different more serious artist and the way they reframe it makes it hit so much harder. Like this totally changes the feeling even though there’s idiots in the audience laughing.

no in that case id bring up this brutal lyric sung to a beautiful melody

Well, like I said, if you're going to Zappa for feels then you're just listening to him wrong. There are so many artists that do the sad and happy and wonderful melodies. Zappa is a great counter to all that with his catchy bullshit imo

Again I agree with you, I’m just saying I get how it can be off putting.

Ok maybe Zappa is the Goat, mans named a song "G-Spot Tornado"