No, you are going to be dealt with. You can sully the legacy of communists projects, but I can only point to martyrs and impotent critics when it comes to the anarchists. You're using history as a scoreboard, and you aren't even in the game.
"Creating and maintaining social systems" sounds an awfully lot like a state to me. Policing sounds like a state to me. Hell, deciding the values of a society sounds like a state to me. If you want to do that without hierarchy, anybody who attempts to do those things with a hierarchy will defeat you in short order. That's simply a strong organizing principle for an institution.
The problem isn't some inherent corruption in the idea of an institution. The problem is the lack of organization on the side of the working class. Look at any successful revolution. Look at any gains ever made for the common man. They were won through protracted struggle. Those victories have been distorted. You don't even recognize them now. Your edenic view of a post-state society is just what the state looks like in a post-capitalist society.
"You're using history as a scoreboard, and you aren't even in the game."
"it's when the people themselves, as individuals, have control of the means of production"
they did in maoist china - there were communes, and factories and agriculture were collectively owned by the workers. i dont get what you mean, are you critiquing hierarchy and the existence of a vanguard party? why is abolishing the state your main ruler of progress?
Hmm, what was the "5-Anti movement", and the massive strikes happening with autonomous workers unions being disappointed that the conditions weren't being met for actual change.
The capitulation the state made was nothing more than reformism.
They kinda f***ed up by copying the Soviet model for class collaboration with the "five-year plan"
...by 1953 approximately 80 percent of the managerial personnel were of bourgeois background and 37 percent of these were pre-1949 graduates, returned overseas Chinese students, or factory owners. ... By 1953 only 20 percent or so of managerial and technical personnel was made up of urban Communist Party members, promoted workers or directors and trade-union officials appointed directly by the Party.
Let me guess, every threat against the state isn't the fault of the state's shortcoming of their promises, it's actually the fault of CAPITALIST SABOTEURS WHO WANT TO DESTROY THE GLORIOUS PEOPLE'S STATE OF ONE-PARTY DEMOCRACY
Sorry, but dressing up like ninjas and fighting guys from 4chan while the police watch isn't helping the working class. The feds love anarchists. Great for domestic terror plots. They spent 50 years destroying every union in the country. Funneling any leftists to anarcho-syndicalism or whatever has been a dub. If you can recognize that class power exists, you should recognize that fighting that war on a million individual, horizontal fronts is a losing battle.
Sorry, but dressing up like ninjas and fighting guys from 4chan while the police watch isn't helping the working class. The feds love anarchists. Great for domestic terror plots. They spent 50 years destroying every union in the country. Funneling any leftists to anarcho-syndicalism or whatever has been a dub. If you can recognize that class power exists, you should recognize that fighting that war on a million individual, horizontal fronts is a losing battle.
I'd argue any anarchists or libertarian socialists don't argue for individual fronts, people argue for horizontal organization.
Also, the feds love ML/Maoist groups a bit more, every established group in the country has a track record of being infiltrated successfully, and some were even fed fronts. PSL and CPUSA most likely are.
Hmm, what was the "5-Anti movement", and the massive strikes happening with autonomous workers unions being disappointed that the conditions weren't being met for actual change.
The capitulation the state made was nothing more than reformism.
They kinda f***ed up by copying the Soviet model for class collaboration with the "five-year plan"
...by 1953 approximately 80 percent of the managerial personnel were of bourgeois background and 37 percent of these were pre-1949 graduates, returned overseas Chinese students, or factory owners. ... By 1953 only 20 percent or so of managerial and technical personnel was made up of urban Communist Party members, promoted workers or directors and trade-union officials appointed directly by the Party.
Unions are not anarchist institutions.
Worker co-ops are anarchist non-institutions.
Unions fielded soldiers against the capitalist state.
Worker co-ops write newsletters about worker co-ops.
Unions are not anarchist institutions.
Worker co-ops are anarchist non-institutions.
Unions fielded soldiers against the capitalist state.
Worker co-ops write newsletters about worker co-ops.
I'm not an anarcho-syndicalist though?
I support them, but I don't think there's any big relevance in trade union organizing right now for anything interesting, like there was in the past.
Remember when Mao had the Shanghai's People's Commune basically destroyed because he didn't like that they got too demanding for his tastes?
Also the 100 Flowers fiasco is kinda funny, because he asked for critiques, he got them, then he immediately moved against dissent he didn't personally like.
I just think my thoughts are very easy to understand somewhat, but no, we need a mommy and daddy state to keep kids away from playing video games, because that's counter-revolutionary western dogma and Marx and Lenin certainly wouldn't approve.
ALL GLORY TO RYAN XI, THE TRUE TORCHBEARER OF MAO'S LEGACY.
ALSO TENCENT CORPORATE MONOPOLY VERY GOOD AND SOCIALIST
I'm not an anarcho-syndicalist though?
I have no clue what you are. You think unions are weak but antifa is going to defeat capitalism. You think that communists are bad and unions are good. I mean, we're arguing about the existence of the state. You're an anti-federalist. I feel like I took a time machine to the 18th century.
And yes, please list more examples of anarchists getting absolutely washed by capitalists and communists alike. You're making a great case for their effectiveness.
I just think my thoughts are very easy to understand somewhat, but no, we need a mommy and daddy state to keep kids away from playing video games, because that's counter-revolutionary western dogma and Marx and Lenin certainly wouldn't approve.
ALL GLORY TO RYAN XI, THE TRUE TORCHBEARER OF MAO'S LEGACY.
ALSO TENCENT CORPORATE MONOPOLY VERY GOOD AND SOCIALIST
"The revolution will be streamed on Twitch"
Alright man, well it's clear nobody has to worry about you.
Just don't let a guy in Oakleys calling himself antifa fill your trunk with fertilizer.
Alright man, well it's clear nobody has to worry about you.
Just don't let a guy in Oakleys calling himself antifa fill your trunk with fertilizer.
Have fun with Maslow's Hammer, and I don't advocate nor agree with for horrible actions like that, those are extremely dangerous and can cause severe human tragedy. Only white supremacists and idiotic anti-civ LARPers say s*** like that.
Have fun with Maslow's Hammer, and I don't advocate nor agree with for horrible actions like that, those are extremely dangerous and can cause severe human tragedy. Only white supremacists and idiotic anti-civ LARPers say s*** like that.
Have fun with Trotsky's ice pick
it would be ideal to do that and then use that knowledge in a meaningful way to progress society, but the only thing it’d do for me is help me argue better which isn’t so fulfilling. hate to be a downer :/
honestly i only argue to test my own knowledge, but i read for my own enjoyment and benefit.
even if i never had to argue w another anticommunist id still be reading becuz there is just too much i know i don't know and no other way to find information that isn't drenched in liberal slop.
plus there is a great sense of peace you get - or at least i get - from ironing out your own personal understanding of society and the ways in which cultural hegemony permeates our lives from the seconds we're born. feels like you're hammering your understanding of existence and refining the total accumulation of your life's experience.
i honestly hated reading until i just found the right philosophy, history and poetry and im typing to you mostly in the off chance that i can in some small way share w u the type of enjoyment i get from it myself
It wasn't really due to their decentralized nature, it was simply because of the militarized Soviet state in sabotaging anarchists and arguably helping the Franco nationalists in the process. The reason CNT-FAI fell down in Spain was due to being attacked by both Stalinists and Franco nationalists. It's revisionist history to say that it was due to the nature of decentralized forces not working, because they do currently exist and they work well, especially within the ranks of the Rojavan YPG fighting back against the Turkish state and ISIS, and also there's been plenty of groups in armed struggle throughout history that operated decentrally against imperialists, especially in indigenous cultures.
i meant the 1873 anarcho syndicalists but even then the spanish antifascists in the spanish civil war (tho admirable) were ultimately crushed due to capitalist encirclement. any anarchists who actually vouched to defend the revolution joined the republicans in fighting the fascists. the remainder were left anticommunists declaring opposition to the republicans AS they were fighting the fascists.
the franco nationalists receiving so much direct aid from fascist italy and germany as well as portugal directly lead to their military competency.
at the same time the left leaning Popular Front in France promised aid but were blocked by liberal elements in France and Britain while also simultaneously tremendously hindering the soviet unions ability to lend aid.
if the conditions of the war were to have remained without any external support the anarchists would have won with popular support. the difference was the neutering of the Soviet Union and the progressives in France's ability to support the republicans.
on the second point, decentralized fighting forces are strong in a protracted war if they have popular support. the anarchist juntas in 1873 spain were crushed because of the fragmentation in their organization as each town operated independently and stateless.
I think if any of these guys were a gateway into leftism we'd have it by now lol but the fact is these guys in the end advocate for nothing more than increased social welfare. the moment one of em starts talking about s*** like gun control you know they aren't principled.
If he really wanted to he could be introducing his audience to some actual theory and leading discussion based on that
I mean he does talk abt theory tho lol
idk too much about his stream but from what ive read/seen he's just reacting to s*** most of the time
True
He shouldn't be seen as a serious leftist public intellectual obv lol
Just a streamer who's a leftist it's not that srs
do you have to have read theory to be a leftist
To be a leftist you have to be more informed about your own and other political ideologies, because if you're not you'll just be a liberal since the standard way of thinking anout politics in the West is liberal and you're just gonna blindly adopt those views unless you make a conscious effort to inform yourself
i think those streamers have a place in the leftie-sphere, particularly ones like hasan or vaush, cause their personality appeals to ppl that might have otherwise gone down the alt right pipeline, or they brought them back from it
they’re like a stepping stone, it’s about shifting the overton window imo
after that ppl should really do their own research to educate themselves
Vaush gonna turn fascist in before the end of the 2024 elections
Just a prediction
The “dictatorship of the proletariat” vanguardist approach has only built a new bourgoise ruling class in its place, and I already addressed your later half.
That’s why you abolish the state immediately. The new “proletarian” state rulers will become as mad with power as their predecessors
"Bourgeoisie is when you have a powerful position in government"