spongebob

5y

u wanna act like we’re in here saying “Let’s rebuild the USSR, and exactly how they did it in 1920s!” that’s what ur creating in ur head and no one here is wanting that,

how condescending of you to assume we don’t understand socialism in the 21st century will be different by many metrics than the 20th

Nort

5y

It is my understanding that the two main components of socialism are 1. workers own the means of production 2. de commodification. I fail to see how the USSR fits that description.

Nort

5y

Ok so how would you attempt to bring about socialism in the US?

ARCADE GOON

5y

Socialism is, in the Marxist-Leninist definition most commonly used, the transitionary stage towards communism.

Workers owned the means of production as represented through the state.

Most production was done not for the sale in the market, but for consumption internally. The profit motive did not play a role in the internal production for the most part. There were pockets of small business here and there early on, especially in agriculture, but these were understood to be transitional and lessened over time.

Come on.

Nort

5y

i don’t understand why you guys are being so confrontational I’m tryna to act in good faith and understand the differing perspectives here.

sniper

5y

· edited

never transitioned to full communism, and the state never withered away

the “workers”, you mean the party leader sycophants?

Nort

5y

Then tell me how you would bring socialism to the US without repeating the same mistakes of the USSR.

ARCADE GOON

5y

Socialism is, in the Marxist-Leninist definition most commonly used, the transitionary stage towards communism.

Workers owned the means of production as represented through the state.

Most production was done not for the sale in the market, but for consumption internally. The profit motive did not play a role in the internal production for the most part. There were pockets of small business here and there early on, especially in agriculture, but these were understood to be transitional and lessened over time.

Come on.

Nort

5y

i don’t understand why you guys are being so confrontational I’m tryna to act in good faith and understand the differing perspectives here.

ARCADE GOON

5y

Because your arguments are non-sensical. Nobody ever claimed we want the USSR back EXACTLY the same, which is impossible because we can't time-travel.

ARCADE GOON

5y

This is obvious and was never disputed by anyone. Khruschev himself said they are many years away from reaching communism. We call it a communist state because communism is their goal, not their mode of production.

Nort

5y

So how do the workers own the means of production here? “Represented through the state” just tells me the means are seized by the state and redistributed how they see fit.

ARCADE GOON

5y

Because the state consists of workers and represents their interests. Up until the end, where things regressed into liberalism, many party workers were peasants and engineers and other workers.

spongebob

5y

nobody is going to spoon feed you an education in here this is what books are for.

short answer: begin w universal healthcare, education, housing, etc. workplaces would have to change drastically and that’s a whole books worth in itself

sniper

5y

China and the Soviets showed that ML states either collapse or their economy falls apart into market reforms and neoliberalism

Even Raul Castro said they were gonna sink if they didn’t reform the economy to be friendly to markets

spongebob

5y

this is a bit of a frustrating post because do you not understand how much there is to that question? plus we don’t want to even talk to you in the first place so that makes typing all this s*** out 3x worse

sniper

5y

Why do MLs call market socialists “bourgoise” then when their favorite country does it, it isn’t?

Yuzzy

5y

Supposing you're not trolling you're better off reading primary or secondary sources than trying to form your political thesis from ktt

sniper

5y

· edited

The politburo and the party brass represented the workers?

You can make the same argument about American politicians being the true representatives of the people

ARCADE GOON

5y

Yes, alongside the state-wide unions.

sniper

5y

The politburo and the party brass represented the workers?

You can make the same argument about American politicians being the true representatives of the people