Communism Thread

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  • Dec 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    Lein

    Maybe I shouldn't be surprising but all the libs replying to this agree with him lol

    https://twitter.com/FukuyamaFrancis/status/1600510771334504448

    i want to read his books on this because of how he envisioned the end of history, not in marx but nietzsche’s concept of “the last man”

  • Dec 8, 2022
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    1 reply

    There's a guy at the african union in a mao fit

    Powerful

  • Dec 8, 2022
    Scratchin Mamba

    There's a guy at the african union in a mao fit

    Powerful

    u found chokings old mentor

  • Dec 8, 2022
    Lein

    Maybe I shouldn't be surprising but all the libs replying to this agree with him lol

    https://twitter.com/FukuyamaFrancis/status/1600510771334504448

    i mean this is literally just what libs believe in the west its not surprising at all. like not even "literally" in the overplayed figurative/exaggerative sense, like it is actually what they believe

  • Dec 8, 2022
    sniper

    i want to read his books on this because of how he envisioned the end of history, not in marx but nietzsche’s concept of “the last man”

    his writing isnt really that complex. ive read end of history and its less of political theory and more of observational commentary/personal opinion. he references various arguments from other theorists in a kind of straussian manner but its less of a real "theory" and more of a personal exposition. the basis of end of history can basically just be boiled down to almost a parallel account of Fischer's Capitalist Realism in a way. If Fischer argues for infinitesimal neolib capitalism due to the wide reaching roots of post-war capitalist economics, Fukuyama argues for infinitesimal neolib capitalism due to the wide reaching roots of social practices of post-war neoliberalism.

  • Dec 8, 2022
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    1 reply

    Sukarno's nemesis was Suharto. Volodymir's nemesis is Vladimir. Any other examples of this? #communismthread

  • Dec 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    Lein

    Sukarno's nemesis was Suharto. Volodymir's nemesis is Vladimir. Any other examples of this? #communismthread

    Lein nemesis was p****

  • Dec 8, 2022
    Womanpuncher69

    Lein nemesis was p****

  • Dec 8, 2022
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    3 replies
  • Dec 8, 2022

    god i wish i was living in the universe these grifters conjure up

  • Dec 8, 2022
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    edited
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    how many people itt support the CPI-M?

    I don't mean to make things black and white or get sectarian, but I fundamentally disagree with the CPI-M's method of advancing socialism in India, both in practice and in terms of the parties official ideology. I wouldn't call them a Communist party anymore, they've fully become revisionist imo, I agree with @Womanpuncher69 @PhilipMorris and probably @frolein based on your views of the CPC

    I would draw a comparison between the CPI-M and the CPC in the past few decades, insofar as they both believe that capitalist development (in China and in India) must presuppose the existence of socialism.

    The 20th West Bengal State Party Congress in 2002 adopted the resolution ‘Left Front Government and Our Tasks’, clearly stating that:

    • "The Left Front Government is trying to protect the working class via an alternative policy. This is not an alternative to capitalism. Under the present federal structure of our country, no such alternative can exist" Source

    Author: "To put simply, Sen and other CPIM leaders (particularly Buddhadeb Bhattacharya, who succeeded Jyoti Basu as the Chief Minister in 2000) have been arguing since 2000 that it is only by expediting the capitalist forces that they can abolish the remnants of feudalism and prepare for a socialist transition. As per the Marxian stages of revolution, it is only through an intensification and dissipation of the inherent contradictions of a fully-fledged capitalist system can a society progress to socialism. Therefore, the government should intensify its efforts to industrialise West Bengal via private capital as the only recourse to an eventual socialist transition"

    So the CPI (M) effectively sides with the interests of capital, supports corporations such as Adani and their port in Kerala, and even colludes with the BJP at times, like in West Bengal earlier this year. Meanwhile, they work with the Fascistic Indian state to suppress Maoists who don't wanna wait 50 years for a revolution. This is justified, insofar as it promotes capitalist development in India.

    I think the old argument that "ermmm Russia can't have a revolution cuz they're too backwards" mirrors "India can't have a revolution, were too backwards, we need to embrace neoliberalism for god knows how long" which is the line of the CPI-M

    I just don't think there's time to keep saying "Wait guys, we're not ready for socialism yet, we need to develop capitalism more!" as the world continues to rapidly decay.

    The core belief that socialism isn't possible WITHOUT extensive capitalist development presupposing it seems like a dogmatic and deterministic way of thinking, no? Socialism can't be the only outcome of a party that adopts capitalism and sides with the interests of capital over the interests of workers for multiple decades.

  • Dec 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    fun guy
    · edited

    how many people itt support the CPI-M?

    I don't mean to make things black and white or get sectarian, but I fundamentally disagree with the CPI-M's method of advancing socialism in India, both in practice and in terms of the parties official ideology. I wouldn't call them a Communist party anymore, they've fully become revisionist imo, I agree with @Womanpuncher69 @PhilipMorris and probably @frolein based on your views of the CPC

    I would draw a comparison between the CPI-M and the CPC in the past few decades, insofar as they both believe that capitalist development (in China and in India) must presuppose the existence of socialism.

    The 20th West Bengal State Party Congress in 2002 adopted the resolution ‘Left Front Government and Our Tasks’, clearly stating that:

    • "The Left Front Government is trying to protect the working class via an alternative policy. This is not an alternative to capitalism. Under the present federal structure of our country, no such alternative can exist" Source

    Author: "To put simply, Sen and other CPIM leaders (particularly Buddhadeb Bhattacharya, who succeeded Jyoti Basu as the Chief Minister in 2000) have been arguing since 2000 that it is only by expediting the capitalist forces that they can abolish the remnants of feudalism and prepare for a socialist transition. As per the Marxian stages of revolution, it is only through an intensification and dissipation of the inherent contradictions of a fully-fledged capitalist system can a society progress to socialism. Therefore, the government should intensify its efforts to industrialise West Bengal via private capital as the only recourse to an eventual socialist transition"

    So the CPI (M) effectively sides with the interests of capital, supports corporations such as Adani and their port in Kerala, and even colludes with the BJP at times, like in West Bengal earlier this year. Meanwhile, they work with the Fascistic Indian state to suppress Maoists who don't wanna wait 50 years for a revolution. This is justified, insofar as it promotes capitalist development in India.

    I think the old argument that "ermmm Russia can't have a revolution cuz they're too backwards" mirrors "India can't have a revolution, were too backwards, we need to embrace neoliberalism for god knows how long" which is the line of the CPI-M

    I just don't think there's time to keep saying "Wait guys, we're not ready for socialism yet, we need to develop capitalism more!" as the world continues to rapidly decay.

    The core belief that socialism isn't possible WITHOUT extensive capitalist development presupposing it seems like a dogmatic and deterministic way of thinking, no? Socialism can't be the only outcome of a party that adopts capitalism and sides with the interests of capital over the interests of workers for multiple decades.

    werent we arguing over the CPIM a week ago

  • Dec 8, 2022

    The core belief that socialism isn't possible WITHOUT extensive capitalist development presupposing it seems like a dogmatic and deterministic way of thinking, no?

    It for is, infact it it isnt even dogmatic cause Marx was against this read his writings on pre-capatalist economies where the development of social formations are much more open than a rigid feudalism to capitalism to socialism, i know he had certain soft spot for some type of village structure forgot which in particular that had a very communal ideology where he saw the possible development of socialism without capitalism

  • Dec 8, 2022

    Today I feel Qatari. Today I feel Arab. Today I feel African. Today I feel gay. Today I feel disabled. Today I feel a migrant worker.

  • Dec 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    Womanpuncher69

    werent we arguing over the CPIM a week ago

    yea, my stance has changed after doing more research

    I guess I fail to see how improving the material conditions of people through capitalist development alone will lead to socialism or empower the working class. like, what does "GDP per capita" tell me about the strength of the working class? This isn't to say that poverty reduction isn't important, I'm not a psychopath. but as a Marxist, why should I care about financial miracles achieved by adopting capitalism? Strictly from a Marxist perspective and not a humanitarian one.

    good job CPI-M for doing a better job than the rest of India. and good job to the CPC for drastically reducing poverty in China. but how does this necessarily lead to the development of socialism?

    capitalist development and reducing poverty or w/e ≠ socialism.

    is it possible to improve the material conditions of people without completely embracing neoliberal development? can you develop socialism without going through decades of capitalist development? I think so

  • Dec 8, 2022

    Individual Maoists killing random CPI (M) cadres is still an issue imo and I don't advocate for it, but its not super relevant and is often used as a deflection from the larger issue, which is the CPI (M) becoming revisionist and colluding with fascists and the Indian state to crack down on Maoists (often killing and torturing innocent Adivasis), cracking down on protestors and siding with Adani, the biggest corporation in India, rather than the thousands of fishers who are becoming jobless and considering the extreme environmental consequences of the Vizhinjam Port. The CPI (M) sides with CAPITAL NOT WORKERS, MAKE THAT S*** CLEAR

    • On Sunday 27th November 2022, 126 seriously injured fishers were admitted to hospital after having been brutally attacked in Vizhinjam, Trivandrum (south Kerala) by Kerala police and a group of hired thugs. At the time of the attack, the fishers were protesting against the controversial construction of a new container port in Vizhinjam. Developed as “India’s first Mega Transshipment Container Terminal” by the Adani Group, this infrastructure is displacing the local population, increasing coastal erosion in the area, damaging very sensitive underwater reef ecosystems and destroying the livelihood of fishers. 129 days ago, fishing communities have started a major protest, demanding, amongst other requests, the suspension of all building work until independent scientific studies have established the ecological and social consequences of the new port. Source

    while ideologically different, both the BJP and CPI-M prioritize the interests of CAPITAL above all else. i think that's my fundamental takeaway. the CPI (M) colluded with the BJP in West Bengal to prevent the Trinamool Congress from getting more seat (Trinamool Congress is also anti-communist and trash afaik). to be fair, the CPI (M) later said that it purged all of the members responsible for the alliance with the BJP, but it's not so hard to see why the two parties would come together based on their prioritization of capitalist development.

    even if Maoists weren't violent, the ruling CPI (M) would still oppose them because Maoists oppose development projects that displace the local populations and do nothing to help the poor!

    therefore I think the current CPI (M) and Maoists have an antagonistic contradiction and irreconcilable views and can't work together under the present conditions

  • Dec 8, 2022
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    2 replies

    also, im not saying that the maoists in India have a perfect strategy towards achieving socialism, they still have a lot of flaws and corruption imo. but im mainly focusing on a critique of the CPI (M), not tryna do an expose on the achievements of Maoists (maybe one day)

    Maoists in India aren't held in nearly the same regard as the CPI (M) in left circles. and in India I think the CPI (M) is much more celebrated than the Maoists overall who are often painted as being nothing more than terrorists

    CPI (M) ideologues like Vijay Prashad are getting international acclaim. Hes entrenching the narrative that the CPI (M) is the "true" Communist party of India thats worth supporting while the Maoists are irrelevant and actively HARM the revolution, which is bullshit.

    Even if you disagree with the Maoists, that doesn't mean the CPI (M) is right

    i think CPI (M) thinkers like Vijay dish out idealogical fodder which is consumed by lazy mfs who sit on their ass and dismiss the people who are actually deeply involved in struggle, putting their lives on the line in order to fight against capitalism, as some kind of leftcom meme that shouldn't be taken seriously. Vijay Prashad is a f***ing b**** bro and he married a white woman

  • Dec 8, 2022
    Womanpuncher69

    @krishna_bound

    https://twitter.com/dailycaller/status/1600658643141419008

  • Dec 8, 2022
    fun guy

    also, im not saying that the maoists in India have a perfect strategy towards achieving socialism, they still have a lot of flaws and corruption imo. but im mainly focusing on a critique of the CPI (M), not tryna do an expose on the achievements of Maoists (maybe one day)

    Maoists in India aren't held in nearly the same regard as the CPI (M) in left circles. and in India I think the CPI (M) is much more celebrated than the Maoists overall who are often painted as being nothing more than terrorists

    CPI (M) ideologues like Vijay Prashad are getting international acclaim. Hes entrenching the narrative that the CPI (M) is the "true" Communist party of India thats worth supporting while the Maoists are irrelevant and actively HARM the revolution, which is bullshit.

    Even if you disagree with the Maoists, that doesn't mean the CPI (M) is right

    i think CPI (M) thinkers like Vijay dish out idealogical fodder which is consumed by lazy mfs who sit on their ass and dismiss the people who are actually deeply involved in struggle, putting their lives on the line in order to fight against capitalism, as some kind of leftcom meme that shouldn't be taken seriously. Vijay Prashad is a f***ing b**** bro and he married a white woman

    yeah i noticed the same thing with acclaim for the Philippines maoist not that they shouldn’t be acclaimed but it’s disheartening that when u find the western left aren’t critically examining what’s going on there but just following what org have the best international press, it’s especially jarring when u see people who celebrate the philippines maoist and CPIM like they don’t see the contradiction there

    like the Kenyan communist who blew up after making a rap just exposes our childlessness

  • Dec 8, 2022
    fun guy

    how many people itt support the CPI-M?

    I don't mean to make things black and white or get sectarian, but I fundamentally disagree with the CPI-M's method of advancing socialism in India, both in practice and in terms of the parties official ideology. I wouldn't call them a Communist party anymore, they've fully become revisionist imo, I agree with @Womanpuncher69 @PhilipMorris and probably @frolein based on your views of the CPC

    I would draw a comparison between the CPI-M and the CPC in the past few decades, insofar as they both believe that capitalist development (in China and in India) must presuppose the existence of socialism.

    The 20th West Bengal State Party Congress in 2002 adopted the resolution ‘Left Front Government and Our Tasks’, clearly stating that:

    • "The Left Front Government is trying to protect the working class via an alternative policy. This is not an alternative to capitalism. Under the present federal structure of our country, no such alternative can exist" Source

    Author: "To put simply, Sen and other CPIM leaders (particularly Buddhadeb Bhattacharya, who succeeded Jyoti Basu as the Chief Minister in 2000) have been arguing since 2000 that it is only by expediting the capitalist forces that they can abolish the remnants of feudalism and prepare for a socialist transition. As per the Marxian stages of revolution, it is only through an intensification and dissipation of the inherent contradictions of a fully-fledged capitalist system can a society progress to socialism. Therefore, the government should intensify its efforts to industrialise West Bengal via private capital as the only recourse to an eventual socialist transition"

    So the CPI (M) effectively sides with the interests of capital, supports corporations such as Adani and their port in Kerala, and even colludes with the BJP at times, like in West Bengal earlier this year. Meanwhile, they work with the Fascistic Indian state to suppress Maoists who don't wanna wait 50 years for a revolution. This is justified, insofar as it promotes capitalist development in India.

    I think the old argument that "ermmm Russia can't have a revolution cuz they're too backwards" mirrors "India can't have a revolution, were too backwards, we need to embrace neoliberalism for god knows how long" which is the line of the CPI-M

    I just don't think there's time to keep saying "Wait guys, we're not ready for socialism yet, we need to develop capitalism more!" as the world continues to rapidly decay.

    The core belief that socialism isn't possible WITHOUT extensive capitalist development presupposing it seems like a dogmatic and deterministic way of thinking, no? Socialism can't be the only outcome of a party that adopts capitalism and sides with the interests of capital over the interests of workers for multiple decades.

    Yeah you’re correct. it’s productivist, economistic nonsense based on a s***ty reading of Young Marx texts, particularly the Preface to a Contribution to a Critique of Political Economy

    The success of the Chinese Revolution alone flies in the face of this revisionist bullshit. At the time it was a very hotly debated topic, so documents from the various factions in China and the USSR can provide more detail here

    This is why Mao’s theorization of New Democracy was so critical and remains important for countries where this applies (also speaks even further to fact that Maoism is the current and most advanced form of Marxism but that’s another topic)

  • Dec 8, 2022
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    1 reply

    @krishna_bound reading Theory of the Partisan while I’m on vacation in Jamaica and this is actually a really impressive text

  • Dec 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    Sir Real

    @krishna_bound reading Theory of the Partisan while I’m on vacation in Jamaica and this is actually a really impressive text

    That + Concept of The Political are basically foundational political texts imo

  • Dec 8, 2022
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    2 replies
    krishna bound

    That + Concept of The Political are basically foundational political texts imo

    I’ll have to check that one out after this

    I’ve been going back through a lot of Mao texts and secondary literature regarding them recently and this is a really good compliment to them

  • Dec 8, 2022
    Sir Real

    I’ll have to check that one out after this

    I’ve been going back through a lot of Mao texts and secondary literature regarding them recently and this is a really good compliment to them

    Theory of political actually helped me conceptualize what withering away of the state means oddly enough

  • Dec 9, 2022
    Sir Real

    I’ll have to check that one out after this

    I’ve been going back through a lot of Mao texts and secondary literature regarding them recently and this is a really good compliment to them

    I think all of his writing is worthwhile to checkout tbh, even though those two are the obvious standouts. Nomos of Eatth is interesting if anything else