bro you're just ridiculous. I'm struggling to even take someone serious who unironically speaks of "white devils" but to basically just reiterate things I've already expressed:

I do understand that this is music targetting a black audience, and I do in fact appreciate this a lot. The slight but to me significant point where I think things just turn toxic is when a group which has unfairly be treated horribly for such trivial a thing as the color of their skin in turn feels like the entirety of people who happen to have other skin are horrible and deserve violence in turn. I understand the frustration but I think it's a serious mistake. It's wild to me I even have to explain this.

It's not like I'm even being fearful here - I don't live in the US and don't have to care. I still do care though, for the black community, which I think is working against its own interests by making this a thing of fighting violence with violence, which really just justifies inevitably exponential violence from the oppressing side. That's trying to put out a fire with fire. (important edit: I didn't have time yet to engage with the riots critically, I don't have a general stance on that yet. It is a strong signal on one hand, but on the other I kinda doubt everything going up in literal flames will make dumb, fearful white Americans, including police, less fearful)

Stop dragging this into just straight black-and-white (u should really say black-or-white) territory. It's not a BUT ARE YOU FOR OR AGAINST?-thing. I'm for the general direction (obviously), doesn't mean I stop looking at it with a critical eye. Stop acting like I'm just being ignorant.

to put it even more simply:

I object to racism, and the definition of racism is judging people by skin tone. I do understand that white people can never fully comprehend how it feels to experience systemic racism, and I do understand how experiencing systemic racism can lead you to in turn have racist sentiments against white people. I'm not even judging this. And again, it's not like this instills any fear in me. It just makes me sad. I think it's a mistake to think like this, and especially from artists with a platform and lots of people who listen to them, I just find it very regrettable.

I actually liked this tweet, because he specifically takes issue with nonblacks acting like they understand "the street" or the importance of all the messages, which is definitely fair. That Yams tweet is basically just saying he doesn't like white people listening to hip-hop too much, which is ridiculous.

I'm from Germany

page 60

It's wild to me how much you claim you love this scene....rap music a whole but really don't understand WHY these artists have the stance they have. Maybe it's because you don't live in the US and because you aren't black. You choose the believe your skewed privileged viewpoint over others who DO live here and ARE black.

Saying you "don't have to care" is exactly what I'm talking about. You should not be the OP of a thread about a music movement who ALWAYS makes it a point to care and fight for it. They don't have a "choice' not to. Neither do I or a lot of other listeners. You being a non minority means you should fight EVEN HARDER for us...if you're really about this s***.

You don't think all these sLums members knows there's some good white people out there? You think they're that oblivious that they would just lump every single white person into the same category? You have to read between the lines man. The white people who are about it know how to do that and understand WHY a black person would say f*** all yall white fans and calling white people devils without getting offended.

Everyone around the world is protesting right now and you're saying s*** like you "hope slums can manage to grow out of black nationalism" and feel like you can walk around with the pan african flag on your chest KNOWING the man who created the shirt would feel some type of way about that.

I went to your Twitter btw. You're very vocal about everything else when it comes to this group but haven't retweed or liked ANYTHING they've been saying about any of this the last few days. That's very telling to me. But whatever it's just good music to you. Once you take those headphones off you could care less

.....quoting "I don't have to care" when immediately after I write "I do care" is just lame rhetoric. You're just intentionally misreading there. The work I put into this thread and into my rym list keeping ppl informed about this group is an effort in my eyes, not a very big one, but something. The larger effort is the one to listen closely and generally do my best to understand better.

You criticize me for not being vocal about the riots on twitter, when I say I don't have a stance on it yet. I regard it as a delicate thing, probably overall positive but in tendency also just feeding into the violence lane I object to (again just a general believe that people who try to undestand each other don't fight and vice versa).

If it's "telling" to you that I don't join into the scream-choir, it just looks like you don't accept any opinions on a complicated matter other than your own.

Look man. I'm not gonna keep going back and fourth. I'm exhausted af about all this already. These aren't just my opinions. I'm pretty sure every black person who posts ITT agrees. If not they can post their own piece.

The idea of the the black community 'working against its own interests' and their protests being one of 'fighting violence with violence' is incorrect. There's a great deal of evidence currently that the origin of the rioting was majority white actors, be it supremacists or general anarchists, attempting to further the divide and indict many innocent black protesters. Its hardly a new concept, we've seen many agent provocateurs embed within peaceful protests in the past in order to escalate things.

Regarding the tweet, you're taking malice and missing the bigger picture which is offence at cultural appropriation, obviously arguably most firmly evident in hip hop.

you claim I have no idea about the why. If there's any actual points you want to point out where I'm in the wrong I'm more than ready to listen and learn. I just don't see the points so far.

Two side correctives: I've repeatedly said that, once it was explained to me that the Freedom Man shirt has the Marcus Garvey flag on it, that I understand and don't want to wear it. I've heard about Marcus Garvey and the idea of Pan-Africanism, just didn't know about the flag.

Of course I don't believe they actually dislike every single white person, but at the same time it's very hard to read anything positive into some of their tweets when talking about white hip-hop fans generally or call out individual fans.

like I said, my points with "fire against fire" where general ones (more about the rhetoric they use) and not regarding the riots rn.

What you say about the riots not being in the interests of the community isn't surprising me at all, confusion and destruction rarely ever help any serious matters. But it's complicated and I don't want to claim I have any in-depth understanding of the situation.

All the more I'm just wondering about what Laced meant with taking stances, from my brief time on twitter over the weekend I've only seen some jokes about looting

I'm not really sure in truth what your offence is or why you're expressing it now.

Rhetoric is one thing, physical actions are another, its really important to separate the two, and to be aware that animosity can exist without violence.

Again, the tweet is simply referring to cultural appropriation. In addition, when creativity serves as the source of your assimilation there's an inherent issue there and I'm sure you can see why animosity would exist.

Undeniably, the bulk of their fan base and all popular hip hop is non-black. There's a reconciliation there and they have clearly made it given they are aware of this and still releasing music to all audiences, as well as merch, performing shows and interacting with fans.

That doesn't mean they cannot express animosity at the situation, nor does it mean they intend violence.

In short, listen to the music, enjoy it, be aware, but don't seek to minimise issues or tell people what to think and when.

I'm not offended, I'm just saddened that it seems to me like a lot (not all) slums members express what's to me some very weird b/w thinking. Because I'm in a position of promoting what they do loudly, I still want to challenge what I think is challengable.

The only reason I felt like I had to reiterate now is because Laced keeps on talking like I'm not caring or engaging at all and went as far as telling me I have to "change my views" (talking about telling people what to think and when). I do listen to these guys a lot and closely and I take them seriously and respect their expression, but taking them seriously to me does not mean just taking their words as gospel.

If my words came across as minimizing, that wasn't the intent at all. Quite to the contrary I wanted to alert to dangers of taking an issue like racism too lightly and simplifying it to a fight where there's the good guys and the bad guys, because the classically "bad" racist is just the tip of the iceberg, a symptom of a whole system of subtle forms of racism which can be hard to pinpoint and worst of all completely contrary to intention (as in for example the hip-hop community). And I'm not saying I'm an exception to this, no one is.

this preservation ft navy blue on streaming is too good

Recognize your growth in this perspective ever more

Video for the best track off Voldy's album MIKE on the boards

If you a black american Shut the f*** up

Huh?

really good. black power snapped

I stand by what I said on this page, but even though I do think it's an important discussion, it's sidetracking what we should be doing right now which is to agree that it's good that things are happening