beflygelt

5y

To me this is not at all about labelling anyone a straight misogynist anyway, not even with Mach (where you can make a good case) I think that's entirely productive. I mean first off the language we speak and the systems which run society, - culture - all of that is subtly misogynist and queerphobic, and this is particularly true for rap and skating culture. This means that even women can be misogynist, gays homophobic, etc, no one is completely exempt in this society.

So it's more about seeing in how far they manage to break out of systematically toxic thinking and to appreciate that. And we should stress it as not being a stationary, essentialst quality of a person, but something they can work on and develop more or less.

I mean Earl is probably the best possible example for this, he made a name of himself through rape jokes and talking about how his d*** is having guts for lunch (tho ngl that one is still a bit funny to me :shrek:) and now he established this scene

justynbass

5y

Nick Hakim “WILL THIS MAKE ME GOOD (The Remixes)” out next Friday with remixes from Bandela, Siifu, Slauson, and KeiyaA https://exclaim.ca/music/article/hear_badbadnotgood_remix_nick_hakims_qadir

beflygelt

5y

BBNG, Nelson Bandela, Keiyaa, Slauson Malone and Pink Siifu remixes of the latest Nick Hakim project all exclusively previewed on NTS

https://www.nts.live/shows/guests/episodes/nick-hakim-29th-january-2021

beflygelt

5y

Maybe Mach and Mavi even moreso I also do see how some of the scene might hesitate to collab with Mach because some of his lyrics def don't quite gel with the more feminist and queer-positive leanings here tbh

justynbass

5y

From my queer and feminist perspective, I believe present-day Earl and the rest of the scene and affiliates are all allies (Medhane isn’t there, but I won’t give up on him).

woods and Elucid are a step behind, which may be because of the oldhead homophobia and misogyny of the era of hiphop they came up in. However, they are progressive in their own ways and making a noticeable effort, and I fw that.

Mach and Roc have consistently shown that they have no interest in true allyship (disappointing but it is what it is)

Hermes666

5y

Interesting reading this thread I only have a look incase that navy blue kid drops anything because he's nice with it, most of these other dudes are weak though.

But into the topic ya'll discussing. And I ain't about to get onto no real deep discussion or nothing but ya'll need to really hear this. The culture where this s*** comes from, where hip-hop is from, where my culture been, is conservative. Straight up conservative values. I was raised to be anti-gay, same goes for damn near everyone I know.

Now look as I got older I realize I don't really care about nobody lifestyle, let them do them. But this idea that hip-hop is all part of some progressive left-wing liberal movement is back to my points about fetishizing the culture to fit ya'll ideology.

I seen plenty white folks trying to hijack the black lives matter protests on some "what about trans lives, gay lives" etc but ya'll need to know culturally we ain't with that, we ain't with none of that. Culturally we are anti-gay, we don't liberate females like we should, we are sometimes racist. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong and I'm not saying it's not a shift and that it ain't changing. Most peoples wouldn't recognize it, I didn't either until I was exposed to some different views that most of my peoples ain't have.

For the record my views have definitely evolved too so props to anybody showing a greater tolerance but if a rapper runs through songs using specific words or language then understand this is probably because within the culture this s*** is still normal.

perry

5y

You understand Mach is Haitian right. If you knew anything about Haitians culture, nothing Mach has said would be surprising to anyone who collars with him.

perry

5y

What efforts do you expect & why should their Art be changed for you?

justynbass

5y

I never said their art should be changed for me, nor do I believe it should. I’m not some entitled social justice warrior. I’m simply a fan of the artists we’re discussing. I know they don’t owe me anything when it comes to the work they create

As for efforts, I don’t “expect” anything beyond consistency. If you present yourself as an ally, then your actions should speak for themselves (and they do for a majority of these guys, in ways like supporting female and queer artists). Similarly, if you’ve never shown interest in being an advocate for inclusivity (and no one has to), then I won’t anticipate those values to be shown. It doesn’t affect my enjoyment of the music

Suedesneaks

5y

Much deserved I learned about her from here
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/maassai-with-the-shifts/

DwindlingSun

5y

I think the problem with discussions like this is that there really isn't a fair metric for quantifying an artists advocacy, nor are we always privy to details that contribute to something like that.

For instance, is it fair to judge a writer on lyrical content when much of their style is writing in vignettes? i.e: billy woods.

Is collaborations with female artists a better metric? Many of you have criticised artists who have always been proponents of female artists. ELUCID and woods have worked with female artists throughout their careers, both put on keiyaA back in 2019 before any of these lot had. Does that supplant questionable lyrics? Navy, on the other hand, has pro-female lyrics but has never worked with a female artist. That's not an accusation, just showing how the metric is flawed.

Mach writes what he writes but we don't have a window into his personal life to judge what he is really like. He doesn't even have a social media where we can gain an insight. But can I say with certainty he's not an advocate in his personal life? No.

On Medhane, at the end of the day he's facing unsubstantiated accusations filtered through a third party. But prior this is a guy who has worked with maassai and keiyaA and was always propping up black female artists in NY, his IG was littered with sharing their gallery showings and music.

I don't know how you judge something like this without very clear evidence. I certainly don't think a***ysing their lyrics (unless obviously its so overt) or who they gave features to is the way.

math fifty

5y

best movement in rap rn

perry

5y

You understand Mach is Haitian right. If you knew anything about Haitians culture, nothing Mach has said would be surprising to anyone who collars with him.

DwindlingSun

5y

I think the problem with discussions like this is that there really isn't a fair metric for quantifying an artists advocacy, nor are we always privy to details that contribute to something like that.

For instance, is it fair to judge a writer on lyrical content when much of their style is writing in vignettes? i.e: billy woods.

Is collaborations with female artists a better metric? Many of you have criticised artists who have always been proponents of female artists. ELUCID and woods have worked with female artists throughout their careers, both put on keiyaA back in 2019 before any of these lot had. Does that supplant questionable lyrics? Navy, on the other hand, has pro-female lyrics but has never worked with a female artist. That's not an accusation, just showing how the metric is flawed.

Mach writes what he writes but we don't have a window into his personal life to judge what he is really like. He doesn't even have a social media where we can gain an insight. But can I say with certainty he's not an advocate in his personal life? No.

On Medhane, at the end of the day he's facing unsubstantiated accusations filtered through a third party. But prior this is a guy who has worked with maassai and keiyaA and was always propping up black female artists in NY, his IG was littered with sharing their gallery showings and music.

I don't know how you judge something like this without very clear evidence. I certainly don't think a***ysing their lyrics (unless obviously its so overt) or who they gave features to is the way.

DwindlingSun

5y

Mavi dropping an EP on Monday