if nothing else i respect the action of voicing your perspective with some research and continuing to debate for days

As well as: I respect those who have the patience to continue to discuss these issues for days without losing their mind too lol

because sometimes these topics are incredibly tedious but they can be so integrally important

let’s give some attention to other current issues like the junta and govt overthrow in myanmar and any other issues because i think there are some bright minds occupying different perspectives while still caring about human beings we can come together at some points and get something done,

like. f*** it. if u care about human beings. let’s find some type of middle ground and help SOMETHING. fix SOMETHING.

come on. i don’t know

you should know by now there is no middle ground with these people and that's ok.

Michael Parenti already blew the f*** out of dweebs like you more than 2 decades ago

Blowing dweebs

Woah a non-economist genocide denier

Truly an expert

I don't even know wtf you're going on about or what you're trying to prove but the fact that cuba is still around and doing wtf they want speaks volumes. The USA has been working against them and there interest for a long f***ing time were probably the closest country to them why the f*** wouldn't we trade with them? Other than to f*** them. Yet there they are still standing waving there d*** around. I also suspect that the us doesn't help them because if they did Cuba would be incredibly successful and they'd have to deal with commie success stories which would inevitably lead to people asking for similar policies here.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Although I’m afraid it’s just wasted energy on these kids.

Notice how they never show the full graph, which shows the economic dip resulting from the revolution.

As Carnegie says, arguments are wasted energy. None of these kids will suddenly stop believing in communism. It’s best to just take a step away and let them grow themselves, if they want.

There always is imo. Now whether it's worth pursuing is another story. (It's not)

I have no desire to get anything out of someone hellbent on "disproving" socialism on an incredibly and overly specific, niche, and non-compelling argument.

The genocide denier didn’t blow the f*** out of s*** you moron. Half of these countries are not only doing far better after the fall of communism, but throughout the region there’s been a surge in right wing populism. Hardly the attitude you’d expect from a population that benefitted from and misses communism.

For some more actual facts and not just “they got housing and education which they never had before lol” let’s look at actual statistics. Although I could show how the eastern bloc failed to raise gdp per capita relative to other nations at a similar level,

judging by your reaction to the OP that wouldn’t do anything, so I’ll also compare life expectancies by countries formerly on the same level

Italic meaning communist

Czech 1950 - 66 Czech 1990 - 71
Ireland 1950 - 66 Ireland 1990 - 74
Austria 1950 - 66 Austria 1990 - 75
Italy 1950 - 66 Italy 1990 - 76
Greece 1950 - 65 Greece 1990 - 75
Hungary 1950 - 64 Hungary 1990 - 69
Spain 1950 - 64 Spain 1990 - 76
Slovakia 1950 - 64 Slovakia 1990 - 70
Bulgaria 1950 - 62 Bulgaria 1990 - 71
Romania 1950 - 61 Romania 1990 - 69
Poland 1950 - 61 Poland 1990 - 70
Portugal 1950 - 61 Portugal 1990 - 74
Cuba 1950 - 59 Cuba 1990 - 74
Serbia 1950 - 59 Serbia 1990 - 71
Jamaica 1950 - 58 Jamaica 1990 - 72
Albania 1950 - 55 Albania 1950 - 71
Qatar 1950 - 55 Qatar 1990 74

So no, socialism did not necessarily provide better healthcare for these countries than they would have had if they had market economies instead

I wasn’t trying to convince communists of anything. Nothing I could tell them could change their mind because the simply don’t even want it to be true. I made this so that any liberal or social democrat in the middle and curious to learn would see the lies that communists have been spewing for what they are

I haven’t posted in half a year before I made this thread though lol

That post wasn't necessarily referring to u specifically but just the sxn in general

No one and I mean NO ONE in this entire website is capable or interested in actually fixing any problems that matter on an international scale. We just come here to talk politics and give useless takes that don’t benefit anyone but the ones that agree with us. When it comes to Myanmar there’s not much to do besides the usual routines of international sanctions. Most Americans have grown weary of any international confrontation and I don’t blame them cause it’s not like I would support a military intervention either. The truth is the most anybody can hope for at this point is if all the leading countries can be convinced that Myanmar’s leadership is worth being starved off economically to get them to stop, kinda like how apartheid was ended

Cap @ that first sentence.

and nah I was just trying to get some more attention on that person's thread I'm not trying to fix the situation in Myanmar

No cap. I didn’t say nobody cared, I said nobody was capable or interested. None of us are world leaders or in any position of actual power. On top of that, to do so would take a personal sacrifice and risk that I don’t think anyone who regularly posts here is actually willing to take, if they were then they already would have

I think any person with communication skills and a drive to do something good is capable of changing things.

Not saying everyone will, but it can happen with some.

This the type of defeatist attitude and lack of imagination that bothers me, too many people have it before they go in to critique socialism, if we're making generalizations here

It’s not defeatism, it’s letting go in a game you know is rigged against you. Hypothetically, even if a socialist revolution were to occur in the west (trust me it never will) the state will have to get stronger before it withers away because agents of capital will continue to exist in both the new state and in other hostile territories.

No matter how much you try to convince them, there will always be a significant part of the world population that will under no circumstances accept communism, and that part of the population will always put up an armed resistance, necessitating a state to preserve the revolution. Then the socialist state will continue to exist perpetually without actually moving closer to a “classless, moneyless society” as new classes are created and shifted within the bureaucracy of the state

Bidet gang

OP ether'd the section