Aug 23, 2022TragedyBerlusconiAfghan and Ukrainian society are phenomenally and drastically different. In many ways. And no, to pre empt what everyone is going to say, it isn't just ethnicity or culture either
The mujahideen at their lowest were way proportionally bigger than the neo nazis in Ukraine, who are altogether a tiny group who are now mostly dead
It's an apples and oranges comparison
@americana ukraine has a surviving government snd central authority which is popular and believed legitimate by an overwhelming majority. It exercises a monopoly on the use of violence and is obeyed and respected by Ukrainians. Even if the neo nazis held even close to the mujahideen power, the government holds public confidence and will continue to do so unless it collapses, and why would it?
- Aug 23, 2022
you didn't even read what i said
- Aug 23, 2022·3 replieskrishna bound
No, I'm asking you very specifically to give me a realistic answer as to why you just support literally everything the ruling class tells you as if there is an intrinsic benefit to doing so. These things are not interconnected but you're making it seem like they are. You do not have to support what the current government tells you to on on a literal basis just because you support the best outcome for the country you live in - your own QoL (and those around you) is not linked to these decisions. This is the entire purpose of this conversation - how these things emerged in political blocs are nowhere near as intrinsic to the socioeconomic status of the west as you think they are. This was the entire point of the earlier conversation I had with @TragedyGhaddafi about US aid/weapons. Do you honestly think if we stopped aid or foreign involvement Russia would steamroll all of Europe in WW3 and then prevent them from trading with us?
Your question is based on a false premise. I'm not taking orders from the "ruling class," I'm just not a jaded recalcitrant populist who has given up on America and our world order. I'm a traditional (let's say 1980s era) American nationalist (though I abhor nationalism to a certain degree). To answer your other question, I think Russia makes it further west if the US isn't involved, and that affects my QoL negatively.
- Aug 23, 2022TragedyBerlusconi
It's more likely that Ukraine will turn out like Poland, but even that is far more socially equitable than russia
i'm not really saying anything about social equity. My point is more just that the economic conditions are f***ed regardless and the more pronounced the war, the more this will continue to be the case. People vastly underestimate how hard it is to reconstruct a country after a harsh war, no less a poor one. We don't need to jump on the Afghanistan or Libya or Somalia train as a touchstone, or fearmonger about Ukraine becoming Syria.
There are many other examples - better references may instead be post-regime collapse countries (i.e. Albania under Hoxha) where QoL never returned to what it was under said regime (disregard ideological discussion here and just consider economics). The greatest post-war reconstructions in history have always been brutal, even when successful (something eastern europe knows all too well). The social aspects are separate and not inherently tied to livelihood or socioeconomic success - Aug 23, 2022·2 repliesPlankton
Your question is based on a false premise. I'm not taking orders from the "ruling class," I'm just not a jaded recalcitrant populist who has given up on America and our world order. I'm a traditional (let's say 1980s era) American nationalist (though I abhor nationalism to a certain degree). To answer your other question, I think Russia makes it further west if the US isn't involved, and that affects my QoL negatively.
i hope you can read what you said and ask how any of that makes any sense
what does russia make it further in? how does it negatively effect your QoL? how is funneling money to ukraine or another country instead of domestic spending "american nationalism"? - Aug 23, 2022krishna bound
i hope you can read what you said and ask how any of that makes any sense
what does russia make it further in? how does it negatively effect your QoL? how is funneling money to ukraine or another country instead of domestic spending "american nationalism"?I seriously don't know how to answer your questions any more clearly than I already have. Russia having more territory gives them more economic leverage, leverage we are already seeing them use in our non-hypothetical reality. In a world without US aid to Ukraine this leverage is 10x greater. This is like basic s*** anyone can understand.
- Aug 23, 2022·1 replykrishna bound
i hope you can read what you said and ask how any of that makes any sense
what does russia make it further in? how does it negatively effect your QoL? how is funneling money to ukraine or another country instead of domestic spending "american nationalism"?By this logic nothing we do outside of domestic affairs is in the American interest, which is a take so stupid it's outright flabbergasting.
- Aug 23, 2022·1 replyPlankton
By this logic nothing we do outside of domestic affairs is in the American interest, which is a take so stupid it's outright flabbergasting.
you are completely blinded by rhetoric, you have genuinely no idea how to separate the spectacle of social conflict from actual material result or consequence
- Aug 23, 2022·2 replieskrishna bound
you are completely blinded by rhetoric, you have genuinely no idea how to separate the spectacle of social conflict from actual material result or consequence
You don't even know how to follow a single train of thought without deviating into something that wasn't mentioned prior.
Aug 23, 2022PlanktonYour question is based on a false premise. I'm not taking orders from the "ruling class," I'm just not a jaded recalcitrant populist who has given up on America and our world order. I'm a traditional (let's say 1980s era) American nationalist (though I abhor nationalism to a certain degree). To answer your other question, I think Russia makes it further west if the US isn't involved, and that affects my QoL negatively.
- Aug 23, 2022Plankton
You don't even know how to follow a single train of thought without deviating into something that wasn't mentioned prior.
you have yet to give an actual answer about how anything benefits you or anyone else, you keep deflecting to some arbitrary authority. this is not an abstract question, it's very specific. you cannot just be like "well russia would get leverage". it doesn't work that way. that's a 5th grade social studies tier a***ysis.
Aug 23, 2022PlanktonYour question is based on a false premise. I'm not taking orders from the "ruling class," I'm just not a jaded recalcitrant populist who has given up on America and our world order. I'm a traditional (let's say 1980s era) American nationalist (though I abhor nationalism to a certain degree). To answer your other question, I think Russia makes it further west if the US isn't involved, and that affects my QoL negatively.
- Aug 23, 2022
This is whataboutism!!!!
- Aug 23, 2022
- Aug 23, 2022·2 replies
Well done US Intel, incredible work
- Aug 23, 2022TragedyBerlusconi
Well done US Intel, incredible work
- Aug 23, 2022·1 replyTragedyBerlusconi
Well done US Intel, incredible work
You should buy the CIA some Reddit Gold as a token of your appreciation
- Aug 23, 2022·2 repliesSEGA GOON
You should buy the CIA some Reddit Gold as a token of your appreciation
Its a shame I have to share the label of drainer with you
I reckon bladee is pro nato
- Aug 23, 2022
- Aug 23, 2022·1 reply
Germany took in thousands of Ukrainians without saying a peep
