and when russia starts that s*** again in another regions what would you say? US fault? civil war? should make a deal?

when someone took what yours, i'm pretty sure you would use the same сuck tactics

Them attempting to siege Kiev in the beginning of the war. It's not about the separatist regions, that's straight propaganda bs. Their goal was always the end of democratic Ukraine, whether by outright annexation of the creation of a satellite state with a puppet government.

This is what I'm talking about with you tankie types carrying water for Russia.

When will people understand that the US and Russia do not give a f*** as to whether or not a country is democratic but rather how subservient it is

If Ukraine is democratic it will be more “subservient” to the US than Russia

“Democratic”

Ukraine was regularly described as the most corrupt and least functioning democracy within Europe, causing journalists to even question such a name for the system of government

But what would you know? You probably couldn’t name a single one of Ukraine’s previous leaders if you tried, considering you proudly consume any sort of substance you speak on via Wikipedia

Wikipedia is a damn good source, I stand by it, meanwhile you can’t even stand by your original account

amp.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine

kiis.com.ua/materials/pr/20161602_corruption/Corruption%20in%20Ukraine%202015%20ENG.pdf

The Kyiv Institute of Sociology:

1.1. After the events of 2014–2015, we can see decreasing levels of trust in authorities at all levels compared to 2011 which may be due to citizens’ unmet expectations of drastic changes in the coun- try. Similarly to all the preceding research stages, leading by the level of trust are local authorities that people usually have closer contact with (17.6% of respondents would rather trust local authorities compared to 20.1% in 2011). Next is the President with His Administration, though this governing in- stitution is trusted by little more than 10% of re- spondents (in 2011, President Yanukovych was trusted by 14.0%).
1.2. Despite the generally low level of trust in the governmental institutions, the population of Ukraine still views national authorities as the most responsible for addressing corruption. Like in all the preceding years of monitoring this issue, in 2015 most respondents place major responsi- bility for anticorruption activity on the President of Ukraine (60.6%), the Parliament, i.e. Verkhovna Rada (41.7%) and the Government, i.e. the Cabinet of Ministers (37.7%).
1.3. The part of people placing major respon- sibility for addressing corruption on usual citizens is steadily growing (from 15.8% in 2007 to 18.0% in 2011 and up to 24.0% in 2015). A higher level of civ- ic conscientiousness is seen in younger categories of the population (those under 45) and women are more conscientious even in the oldest age group, while aging men tend to place this responsibility on anyone but citizens themselves.
1.4. Not more than 14% of people believe that authority representatives are willing to fight cor-
ruption. Compared to 2011, this indicator is some- what lower for every level and branch of power. First of all, people believe in the willingness of local authorities (13.2%) and the President (12.3%).
1.5. The most thematic of all the issues suggest- ed for evaluation is the military operation in the east of Ukraine, which causes serious concern in 97% of respondents. Somewhat lower rated is the problem of high living costs (95%) traditionally seen as the most topical on the preceding stages of the study. The issue of corruption in everyday life is among the three leading ones (94.4%), though its particular case of corrupt authorities is nearly as serious (93.8%).

No s*** it’s corrupt, they are still a fledgling democracy, in eastern Europe no less. If Russia took over they would have no chance of becoming a democracy. That’s what Maidan was about

the increase in corruption and a weakening public perception of the government occurred AFTER the pro-Western coup

Plankton: I have absolutely no knowledge of politics and history outside of what can be freely edited by anyone with an agenda. But yes I stand by the good source

Ridiculous

Poroshenko was corrupt as s***, still better than a pro Russian stooge

can you stop moving goalposts

You moved the goalposts. First you’re talking about Ukraine not being a democracy then you say its corrupt, as if that is evidence. Democracies can be corrupt.

If a democracy is rife with corruption to the point of it being described hyperbolically, it isn’t a democracy.

It doesn’t matter what constitutions or laws say. If the actual political dynamics of the country are fundamentally non-democratic, then it isn’t a democracy

The US isn’t a democracy and neither is Ukraine

The US is a democracy the the extent that it is set up one, it’s just a flawed one.

The US is fundamentally not set up as a democracy if money invariably increases the power of one’s political agenda

That’s true about every democracy ever

Every capitalist democracy.

So every democracy

And thus we reach the crux of this argument which will devolve it into the classic dichotomy of KTT2 and the internet

There is no democracy under capitalism

LOL