e t 🇺🇸Mar 2, 2022·1 reply
JodyIts obvious but their snakes using the guise of nuance to push propaganda
Sad reallyI mean, can’t really blame them at the end of the day. Propaganda is very effective. They probably aren’t doing it on purpose but are just successfully brainwashed. I mean you have millions of people that STILL believe in QAnon. It’s a crazy world out there
- Mar 2, 2022e t
I mean, can’t really blame them at the end of the day. Propaganda is very effective. They probably aren’t doing it on purpose but are just successfully brainwashed. I mean you have millions of people that STILL believe in QAnon. It’s a crazy world out there
S*** I can blame them. They act like their above it all and not on a team but they are. We know they are but their too cowardly to admit it.
Mar 2, 2022·1 replyI can't believe this US ambassador was spreading 2022 Russian propaganda in a diplomatic cable to NATO and the US in 2008, disgusting
"Not only does Russia perceive encirclement by NATO, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face. ... Dmitri Trenin, Deputy Director of the Carnegie Moscow Center, expressed concern that Ukraine was, in the long-term, the most potentially destabilizing factor in U.S.-Russian relations, given the level of emotion and neuralgia triggered by its quest for NATO membership. ... Because membership remained divisive in Ukrainian domestic politics, it created an opening for Russian intervention. Trenin expressed concern that elements within the Russian establishment would be encouraged to meddle, stimulating U.S. overt encouragement of opposing political forces, and leaving the U.S. and Russia in a classic confrontational posture"
Mar 2, 2022·1 replyScratchin MambaI guess they try to force peace this way, either by taking s*** from Putin and his billionaire friends or hoping that the population will riot.
A riot won't work and will come at a great human cost, both the dire conditions leading up to the riot and the repression in response to the riot itself. Maybe sanctioning Russian elites would work but they're not gonna go far enough with that, that bourgeois solidarity too strong comrade
If the US wanted peace they could have and still could make an agreement about NATO and Zelensky shouldn't be demanding the Crimea back while also requesting NATO to go to war with Russia. That won't bring peace any closer
But since Putin doesn't stop, i wonder what will happen when Russia eventually kills/jails Zelensky and installs a pro-Russian government in Ukraine. I think the West will only sanction Russia more, and although that's dangerous, can you really blame them?
They definitely will sanction Russia harder. I mean besides the fact that I think this whole NATO vs Russia conflict in Ukraine was initiated by the US, their sanctions targeted at regular Russians are just not going to work and are morally wrong. So I mean yeah I do blame them
I wonder what will happen after that. I can see Sweden and Finland join NATO immediately. Ukraine will end up in a guerilla warzone. European countries spending a lot more on their military budget. Russia's reach will be a lot closer to more NATO territory and they've shown to be unpredictable. Scary times
I agree with pretty much everything here, but I mean if the US had intelligence that they were going to invade for months and new why Russia would intervene in Ukraine even 14 years ago, can we really call them unpredictable? Just read this leaked cable from a US ambassador from Moscow in 2008:
"Not only does Russia perceive encirclement by NATO, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face. ... Dmitri Trenin, Deputy Director of the Carnegie Moscow Center, expressed concern that Ukraine was, in the long-term, the most potentially destabilizing factor in U.S.-Russian relations, given the level of emotion and neuralgia triggered by its quest for NATO membership. ... Because membership remained divisive in Ukrainian domestic politics, it created an opening for Russian intervention. Trenin expressed concern that elements within the Russian establishment would be encouraged to meddle, stimulating U.S. overt encouragement of opposing political forces, and leaving the U.S. and Russia in a classic confrontational posture. ... Trenin cautioned strongly against letting an internal Ukrainian fight for power, where NATO MAP was merely a lever in domestic politics, further complicate U.S.-Russian relations now."
If you say any of this now, you're a pro-Russia propagandist, but it basically predicted exactly how things have played out in the last 14 years. The solution seems pretty straightforward to me
I don't actually believe Ukrainian membership is actually that important to the US tho, I think they wanted this invasion to happen for their own geopolitical goals like they wanted Russia to invade Afghanistan.
Europe will be fully taken back into the US orbit, but not with a Marshall Plan this time but more expensive oil lol, Russia will be weakened by this war no matter what, and of course US oil and weapons companies benefit too. US wins mostly geopolitically and China wins economically.
This is an L for everybody else involved tho: for Europe, even more so for Russia and most severely for Ukrainians. I just hope Ukraine doesn't actually turn into a guerilla warzone at this point, but with all these weapons flowing in to god knows who, it might just be too late for that even
It's definately sad for the Russian people that they will have to go through all that. Just explaining what they try to do, and i can't really blame them since the alternatives are: ignoring this whole conflict or involving yourself in real combat which means WW3. Then this is an actual middleground. I think they should focus more on sanctioning the elite too yeah. I would've focused more on Putin himself too if i was them.
Do you think this conflict will end if Ukraine agrees to neutrality and losing Crimea? I thought so too, but after those peace talks i'm not so sure anymore. Putin really wants a pro-Russian government.
For the rest of the world Russia seems very unpredictable. You didn't really believe the US intelligence either, and so did most people at first.
Yeah, that ambassador predicted it all. That's pretty interesting. The USA probably knew how it would play out and can benefit from it since Europe will try to distance itself more and more from Russia. But i actually agree with that. Becoming more independent from Russia ain't a bad idea. They should've initiated that long ago imo instead of that Nord Stream 2 fiasco. Always been advocating in favor of that. And hopefully we can break away from the USA eventually too.Yeah Ukraine is f***ed nevertheless, whatever happens. It's the victim of these superpowers getting at each other. We see and seen that way too much. Always the smaller country has to pay for it all
Mar 2, 2022JodyIm down i call zulu
Impi OP as hell man
Mar 2, 2022·2 repliesScratchin MambaI can't believe this US ambassador was spreading 2022 Russian propaganda in a diplomatic cable to NATO and the US in 2008, disgusting
"Not only does Russia perceive encirclement by NATO, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face. ... Dmitri Trenin, Deputy Director of the Carnegie Moscow Center, expressed concern that Ukraine was, in the long-term, the most potentially destabilizing factor in U.S.-Russian relations, given the level of emotion and neuralgia triggered by its quest for NATO membership. ... Because membership remained divisive in Ukrainian domestic politics, it created an opening for Russian intervention. Trenin expressed concern that elements within the Russian establishment would be encouraged to meddle, stimulating U.S. overt encouragement of opposing political forces, and leaving the U.S. and Russia in a classic confrontational posture"
Yet another straw man
Obviously Russia feels pressure from the possibility of NATO moving to include Ukraine. No one is saying otherwise or claiming that that’s propaganda. Posting Russia’s reasoning over and over again does look a bit like it tho 😹
- Mar 2, 2022·2 replies
will these companies that are dropping Russia keep the same energy for China if they invade Taiwan
- Mar 2, 2022·1 replySmoofer
Yet another straw man
Obviously Russia feels pressure from the possibility of NATO moving to include Ukraine. No one is saying otherwise or claiming that that’s propaganda. Posting Russia’s reasoning over and over again does look a bit like it tho 😹
From now on I will post 1 "Putin bad" for every time I post about how we got here in the first place
Mar 2, 2022·1 replySmooferYet another straw man
Obviously Russia feels pressure from the possibility of NATO moving to include Ukraine. No one is saying otherwise or claiming that that’s propaganda. Posting Russia’s reasoning over and over again does look a bit like it tho 😹
POV you don’t know the definition of strawman
- Mar 2, 2022Scratchin Mamba
From now on I will post 1 "Putin bad" for every time I post about how we got here in the first place
ITT
- Mar 2, 2022minji
will these companies that are dropping Russia keep the same energy for China if they invade Taiwan
Hell nah they’d tank their own bottom line
- Mar 2, 2022·1 reply
Posting Russia’s reasoning over and over again does look a bit like it tho
People genuinely asking questions about the overarching motivations of this conflict is now propaganda folks
- Mar 2, 2022·1 replyamericana
POV you don’t know the definition of strawman
Who exactly is claiming that Russia’s reasoning from that excerpt is propaganda? If it’s not someone itt that’s actually making this argument, that’s what we call a straw man
- Mar 2, 2022
Russia is actually invading Ukraine because putin wants to nuke the world and make Russia communist again because I saw Imran Zakhaev do it in call of duty
- Mar 2, 2022·1 reply
Still waiting on any poster itt that actually claimed russia is communist while you’re at it
- Mar 2, 2022·2 repliesSmoofer
Who exactly is claiming that Russia’s reasoning from that excerpt is propaganda? If it’s not someone itt that’s actually making this argument, that’s what we call a straw man
You, @DaddyC, and @Extraterrestrial claiming that people like me and others itt posting well sourced information are propagandic shills
- Mar 2, 2022americana
Posting Russia’s reasoning over and over again does look a bit like it tho
People genuinely asking questions about the overarching motivations of this conflict is now propaganda folks
👍 just asking questions 😹
- Mar 2, 2022·1 replySmoofer
Still waiting on any poster itt that actually claimed russia is communist while you’re at it
Multiple users were itt parroting s*** CNN was saying because Putin said he missed Russian primacy in the USSR
- Mar 2, 2022·1 replyamericana
You, @DaddyC, and @Extraterrestrial claiming that people like me and others itt posting well sourced information are propagandic shills
Just posting well sourced information guys
- Mar 2, 2022Smoofer
Just posting well sourced information guys
Yes because the US ambassador to the USSR is not well sourced
- Mar 2, 2022americana
Multiple users were itt parroting s*** CNN was saying because Putin said he missed Russian primacy in the USSR
Ah yes multiple users
sace 👍Mar 2, 2022smells like propaganda gunpowder here smh
- Mar 2, 2022
Can we have this added to OP (just so people can know Russia’s reasoning 👍)
Not only does Russia perceive encirclement by NATO, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face. ... Dmitri Trenin, Deputy Director of the Carnegie Moscow Center, expressed concern that Ukraine was, in the long-term, the most potentially destabilizing factor in U.S.-Russian relations, given the level of emotion and neuralgia triggered by its quest for NATO membership. ... Because membership remained divisive in Ukrainian domestic politics, it created an opening for Russian intervention. Trenin expressed concern that elements within the Russian establishment would be encouraged to meddle, stimulating U.S. overt encouragement of opposing political forces, and leaving the U.S. and Russia in a classic confrontational posture
WINTER 🌨️Mar 2, 2022·5 replies
Mar 2, 2022https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1499102557230493696WINTER