I like how Persona 5's framing device (Sae's interrogation of Joker) contributes to the sense that Joker is under constant scrutiny, and how it’s incorporated in to Sae’s character arc and the game’s plot twist.

Quite surprised theres still no info on scramble coming west
Where da hell is P5S Atlus?

Remember people saying these games were going to flop

Highest rated PS4 exclusive

Akechi has the best social link in the series btw

amen

"i hate you" :damn:

Man

I didn't even like him that much in Vanilla P5 but they did him a favor in Royal

When they play Billiards in rank 7 and it Akechi subtly uses it as a metaphor for having to wack Joker for getting in his way even though he doesn't want to was :whew:

And ALL of Rank 8

There's so much subtext in their conversations it's insane. They were able to give you a genuine look at who he really is without overtly spoiling anything for people who didn't already know about him. The writing quality for all the new Royal stuff with him is so much better than anything in the original game. ATLUS snapped with that character

they really went all out on him (+ the royal content in general). i loved him in vanilla, but he was even better in royal. i got so excited when atlus was dropping the japanese trailers with akechi in the party at maruki's palace.

man, his voice lines as the navigator too. atlus really blessed us

gonna dust off the ps2 and finally give p3 fes a go

Shido really is the ultimate form of the "shitty adult" that the Phantom Thieves have been railing against for the whole game: he doesn’t just use his power as a politician to abuse the people beneath him, but is also in a position to enact unjust laws that affect society as a whole. Along with Akechi and Sae, he’s one of the main characters that Persona 5 uses to explore this theme of law versus justice.

It's interesting how Shido is the only major antagonist in Persona 5 whose pursuit of power is not rooted in self-preservation. Kamoshida, Madarame, Kaneshiro, Okumura, and Sae all become complicit in unjust systems and abuse their power because they ultimately fear poverty or victimisation, whereas Shido is not too affected by his own wellbeing or survival. He only desires power for its own sake and appears to be on the path to becoming a dictator, especially when he dresses up like a general and ramps up the nationalist rhetoric inside his Palace.

Professional animator breaks down Persona 5's All-Out Attack sequence (and some of the game's effects animation):

What's your take on the opinion that some of this games' villains are too cartoonishly evil to hold an impact?

It's true that Persona 5's antagonists are cartoonishly evil, but that doesn't lessen their narrative impact. They still challenge the Phantom Thieves on an emotional level that forces them to grow as characters, and they also serve to reinforce the themes of the game.

They might resemble cartoon villains, but there's still depth to the characterisation of the antagonists. They aren't just evil for the sake of being evil; they're driven by real fears and motivations, and the game provides some explanation for how each of them became so corrupt. Even Shido, who's characterised as an irredeemably diabolical megalomaniac, was persecuted by his seniors when he first entered politics (demonstrating the cyclical nature of corruption and abuse).

I imagine that Madarame is the poster child for this issue. A man who takes children in so that he can exploit their art skills is probably not very "realistic" (🙄), but I feel that these arguments strictly focused on the logic of a fictional work are made by people who lack the framework to engage with media in a more meaningful way. Children and artists often do get exploited in real life, and I think it's clever how those two complementary ideas are combined with Madarame's character.

Madarame is more than just an evil old man. In his Palace we discover that his actions are driven by a fear of poverty (tying in to this idea of the starving artist that's reflected in Yusuke's character), and he's even humanised to an extent in Yusuke's confidant when we discover that he actually did have some fatherly affection for Yusuke. The same thing applies to every other antagonist; the game doesn't try to excuse their actions, but it does provide a reason for them.

I get why people might not like how exaggerated and ridiculous the antagonists can get, but things like that just don't bother me. Their portrayal is consistent with the lighthearted anime-ish tone of the series (not to say that there aren't serious moments), and there's so much more to engage with in these characters beyond getting hung up on the small stuff. If the characters lacked depth then I'd probably be complaining about how one-dimensional they are, but that's just not the case.

Sorry for the long read. I didn't mean to write this much, but I just kept thinking of more to say.

the shivers down my spine and goosebumps when he said that were too good. when you play the original and you know that all along and he finally spits it out....

also at this point I dunno if we'll get another spin off for p5 but I'm guessing scramble and dancing all night don't really give much screen time for the social links outside of the main party right? like we wouldn't see sae, sojiro, or any s links from the OG in the spinoffs right?
they should find a way to give us more screen time with sae idrc how they do it I just want it

playing persona 3 portable 🔥

FES can suck an egg

I agree with this take wholeheartedly. I actually prefer this method for the majority of the villains in P5 partially because through it, the writers can establish an impactful villain without leaving too much room for misinterpretation, though that still happens but to a different extent.

For example, Kamoshida is reprehensible in his actions and the came doesn't take a second to try to redeem him. We know his obsession with power and lack of respect for women is part of why he became what he became, but dwelling on "why" rather than "he needs to be stopped" runs the risk of being seen as a justification of his actions of sorts.

I think palaces were an amazing idea for fleshing out villains. And I can't wait to see where they take that concept in P5 Scramble.

Are you a fan of Persona 4 as well?

I could write another mini-essay on Kamoshida but I’m gonna stop myself.

Persona 4 and 5 are among my favourite games. They’re both structured very similarly in narrative and gameplay. Thematically, Persona 4 is about people trying to gain an understanding of themselves and the world around them, and so the antagonistic forces are the characters’ own internal conflicts as opposed to external villains like in Persona 5 (though the shadows in both games are equally over-the-top).

Finally I can stop hearing about this s***

Hallelujah
Plz be b4 SMT 3 HD tho

Can't look at the OG P5 lore the same anymore, wish the Royal stuff was in this

Same.

Especially since Royal improves the OG game so much with its characterization and ending

I'm sure they'll reference Royal events at some point during this story but yeah, I suppose that's the downfall of developing two games so close to each other

F*** these dudes man they keep beating my ass