Respectfully, that’s a reach though. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but even then that doesn’t stop us from trying to do what we can when we can. I don’t wanna linger on a random example you probably weren’t trying to build a hill to die on but this is different for a lot of reasons

Until the pandemic kept people inside, trans women were being murdered at historic rates increasing every year since at least 2017. There is nothing wrong with recognizing a sense of urgency to do some corrective attitude work to save lives. We’re not talking about a systemic issue like underpaying workers that’ll take a systemic approach to fix it. This is about not spreading counter productive rhetoric that leads to bigots feeling justified when they decide to kill people.

True, it'll definitely have an effect on family I'm not gonna argue that at all but damn at some point you gotta ask yourself are you really down to loose your child emotionally or physically over this?

I just feel like the risk of that vs Momma being hurt and confused for a while just completely out weighs each other, guess thats all I'm really trying to get at

You’re right, it’s not a hill I’m trying to die on, BUT..

Your nihilistic and negative mentality (which you may not even realize it is) is a mistaken mentality.

First off, NeYo here clearly says out his own mouth, he got nothing against trans people or ANY people, he is SPECIFICALLY talking about kids wanting to transition into their opposite gender. That’s what he does not like and support.

Second (and the nihilistic mentality I spoke of), the solution here is not to bully, gaslight, and prohibit regular people of their right to have an opinion. NeYo saying this isn’t the “transphobic flag” you think it is, that is green lighting bigots to be like “yeah let’s go kill those trans people!”

Why do you assume comments like this will have such a PROFOUND affect on bigots and transphobes without any real statistical correlation or proof? This is the nihilism.

(You found out they’re being killed, but you don’t know why, or by who.)

I used to think like this too a few years back, but I matured a bit more and realized the answer is not prohibiting freedom of speech, especially when it’s clearly not trying to offend or be discriminatory.

The answer is always in the environments in which people grow up in. That being said the best solution is just worrying about your own social circle, and your own interactions in your daily life. Live it with respect and dignity and teach the same onto others. Don’t tolerate any sort of discrimination or bigotry.

Eventually if everyone does this, there will be less and less environments that lead to people becoming racist, violent, prejudice, etc.

To conclude, NeYo saying what he said is not causing more trans people to get killed. Expand your mind and think outside the box.

Longest post I ever done on here but it’s a good one and insightful one

Tbh I wish I could @ all the Gen Z wokesters with that post up above, a lot of them need to hear it.

Exactly

I disagree!

So first off, NeYo saying he has nothing against trans people isn’t enough to take him at his word when his next words are plain anti-trans. There are people who don’t think they’re racist or hate Black people who absolutely are. Biases tend to be unconscious a lot of the time. I’m sure NeYo thinks he hasn’t said anything anti-trans, but that doesn’t mean his words effectively aren’t. When you compare the complex identity of a human being to “what if they wanna be called a goldfish” I think it’s safe to say he isn’t speaking from an informed place. Quite literally, he doesn’t show any sign that he understands that transitioning isn’t always a surgery. It’s okay to not know everything, but when you speak an uninformed opinion it is also okay to be criticized for it.

For your second point, my background is in the non-profit space. I’m currently an Associate Director at a gun violence prevention place but from 2016-2020 I worked for an org that specialized in HIV prevention and LGBTQ discrimination. I don’t say this to flex, but just in hopes you can speak to me on a more even level and not like I’m 14 even if we ultimately can’t see each other’s pov.

The research and tracking was pretty clear on discrimination and what constitutes as hate crimes, and multiple police reports confirmed that the murderers were people who, in a variety of different situations, did not believe trans women were women. That is an attitude that directly comes from anti-affirming rhetoric, which is bigger than just “I hate trans people.” The uptick in homicides also coincided with more national discussions and laws surrounding trans people. If you interpret that as negative and nihilistic, that’s fine, but the data is the data and it’s notable enough to think about what we have the power to change and at least try, and I don’t think a call towards trying is especially nihilistic.

TLDR, “You could identify as a goldfish if you feel like, I don’t care. That ain’t my business. It becomes my business when you try to make me play the game with you. I’m not gonna call you a goldfish. But if you wanna be a goldfish, you go be a goldfish.” is neither informed or helpful and all tracking data shows that when this kind of rhetoric is platformed, homicides rise.

Those are really cool jobs bro, my respects

I had to go back and watch the video cause I didn’t remember hearing about that goldfish line, and sure enough, I didn’t hear it. I was talking about the apology video, in which, he clearly says he didn’t mean to offend anyone, he is clearly miseducated about the matter and wants to get educated more. He is clearly admitting fault and essentially saying he may have spoken some of the wrong words, in the first video.

Of course you can always criticize peoples opinions, especially misinformed ones, but again my initial response was directly to only the second video.

(Point I was trying to make, being: NeYos words don’t hold as much value as you “feel” they do.)

I’m curious: are you implying that NeYo is secretly a bigot and he is not consciously aware of it yet? If so, imo, that’s a pretty wild assumption, respectfully lol.

A point I want to emphasize here connects with your next statement as well:

“That is an attitude that directly comes from anti-affirming rhetoric”

Again, you’re basing this off emotion. Off what you “think” is happening. You “think” NeYos subconscious demons are showing. You still have failed to show me any actual statistics or datasets backing up your claims.

You know it's lit when you click the most recent page and the second line mentions capitalism

As much as you want to deny it, there good and bad beliefs and they shouldn't all be tolerated. Bigotry kills LGBT people and acceptance of them doesn't. What's killing the Chinese workers you supposedly care about is capitalism, which no phone, no fruit, no commodity is produced outside of. I organize to undermine that system which exploits all workers, including those of the global south. They only cross your mind when its time to use them in poorly constructed arguments in defense of transphobia.

Just because you're a guilt ridden middle class suburboid doesn't mean everyone else is, stop projecting.

"One hell of an ether" did you write that one with one hand? Embarassing

What did he say wrong . I’m tired of this generation , following ideals just because the public deems it right. This is America we’re suppose to have freedom of speech , instead if ppl say something the majority don’t like they have to apologize or get threatened to get canceled . Than we have bots like you that’s just follow and don’t know s*** at all

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/08/07/entertainment/ne-yo-transgender-apology/index.html

Here’s the article which also mentions his original “goldfish” comments

Hmm, do I think NeYo is subconsciously a bigot? I guess so, but I hesitate because I think people instinctively read that as aggressive, and maybe a different word would help communicate the point better. I’m comfortable saying it’s bigoted because I understand bigotry to sometimes appear calm and small. Racist who didn’t think they were racist thought ‘separate but equal’ was just a non-bigoted opinion. They also didn’t think they were racist when they said police were just doing their jobs when an unarmed Black person is murdered. Bigotry and prejudice are often unconscious and contribute to dangerous cultures, which I’m sure you already know. They didn’t have to lynch people to adhere to the same ideas that lead to it, and the normalization of the smaller things have historically given way to the bigger things.

I think we both know that this conversation isn’t worth me digging up multiple peer reviewed articles in an attempt to win an argument that isnt winable for either of us unless we’re willing to change our minds here and now on ktt2 of all places. We’re strangers. It’s more valuable to continue sharing our perspectives with each other respectfully to give us something to think about, and that can contribute to minds changing on our own terms later if it happens. I’m also frankly too lazy to find that research since I’m in a pretty different field these days and it’s 1:18am here.

I will say that although correlation doesn’t automatically equal causation, there’s a reason why researchers do these peer reviewed studies to see if the trends are consistent, traceable, and hold up to scrutiny (testing against your own theory, and then weighing the results by a specific confidence threshold). I can confidently tell you that trans hate crime spiking begins around 2016 and continued until the pandemic. There were no other significant factors to occur during that time except for an uptick in anti-trans rhetoric and laws becoming national topics, so uninformed comments like NeYo’s mirror those same sentiments whether he realizes it or not. That isn’t a feeling or nihilism. That is as close to historical data driven truth as we can get.

this a privileged ass pov lmao

Mans said "just worry about your own social circle" good god yo I shutter to think what the present would be like if the ancestors ever thought like this lmao

I promise you Im not projecting lol, and I dont trouble my mind in regards to the countless amounts of violence, hatred, and racism that goes on in this world, because I promise you, as long as humans are alive, it will exist by default, and I would drive myself crazy trying to over actively care about it ALL.

You did say one thing right though: which is that bigotry should not be supported or tolerated, and I agree 10000%

But in the 2nd video NeYo made (which is what this thread is about by the way, and what Im directly commenting on) there is no bigotry or racism being said. In fact he said he didn't mean to offend and come off in such manner, and has a lot to learn still. He was just trying to say he doesn't like the idea of young children making such brash decisions so young.

And I'll tell you same thing I was telling the other brother itt: y'all really place so much emphasis over what these dudes are saying, acting like Ne-Yo saying this is actively going to get more trans people killed. You say this off nothing more than a feeling, as there is no statistical correlation to prove it.

Transphobic remakes? He remade his songs and added transphobic bars?

He saw that Taylor remake money but didn’t quite understand the concept

Fair enough: Lets assume there IS a correlation, albeit probably not very significant.

"They didn’t have to lynch people to adhere to the same ideas that lead to it, and the normalization of the smaller things have historically given way to the bigger things."

I just find that although yes, this may be slightly true, I mean, the butterfly effect right? Everything will have a chain reaction... but imo its just too superficial of a solution to try to limit people speaking their mind freely in open discussion that includes no direct threat, racism, or prejudice.

Think about it this way: for every 3% of people that watched NeYo's video (or any other video you may 'think' is spewing subconscious bigotry) and actually ended up being pushed closer to the edge of being an active violence inflictor (I say 3% out of my ass, whatever percentage you want to guesstimate, I think we can both agree it will be a very small minority), there is a 97% majority that you and I AND NeYo fall under, that can understand and comprehend an opinion without it influencing in any way what we already believe. That will not go out and suddenly become violent.

Im not trying to argue against trans people being killed, dont get me wrong, that would be cynical, obviously I want them to be respected, much less would I want them to DIE! I merely fight for solutions which I think could be more efficient.

I say that to make a similar point as before: lets forget the superficial solutions, i.e. "You can't say that! Think about what it may inspire someone to do!" Because this is an age old discussion that has plagued America. The same has been said about FPS video games, rap music, action movies, so on and so forth. The implications as to what these things "cause" and "inspire" is an argument not much different than what you are actively arguing now, when in reality to me its almost like a cop out, like refusing to take accountability or deviate from finding a REAL solution to what causes certain violent or negative phenomena (not by you, Im referring to America in regards to the examples I gave).

These are 2 "deeper level" solutions that imo can have a much more significant impact (It starts within our circles, which may seem small, but you can't expect the change to happen overnight):

1. Lets focus on bettering our immediate environments, by standing up for good morals, for respect, for integrity, and over time, we will see an exponential change in society. It will ripple through generations and communities.

and 2. If you really want to have a more EXPANSIVE reach and a greater GENERATIONAL impact beyond your community and your time, you're working in the wrong sector brother. Get into education. 2nd to the home, and the environment you grow up in, is the education you receive. Let us think deeper again: educate these 3%'ers that are bigots on the edge of becoming a violent offender, BEFORE they even become a 3%'er. Give them the education and the upbringing that you and I had, that allowed us to not turn INTO a person with that type of mentality. Do this and help feed the ripple that has the potential to become an encompassing wave among the human timeline. Do this if you really feel it in your heart and soul the passion to dedicate your life to a meaningful cause.

Im genuinely asking you to think beyond your generation (and adjacents), beyond your city, country, beyond your social media feed and timelines, beyond your society, and to really use the conscious brain that you are blessed with to think beyond time as you know it. We can think in the 4th dimension, its our greatest gift, might as well use it.

If you are trsnsphobic you are a pos let's be honest .

Those people facing persecution no one gives ashit about your personal opinion on trans kids other than people who wanna see them suffer and prolly boycotting bud light...

Mods been going hard recently

People have to realise that kids who are trans who SOCIALLY TRANSITION is completely safe and harmless with no surgeries and no d****/medicines. Either Ne-Yo caught in a lie from gender critical bullshit or chose this as a latest grifting scheme to favour himself.

It's so wild to me that mfs are so bothered by the harmless ways others choose to live their lives. Leave trans people alone