Palestinian Oozi

1y

I get what you’re attempting to say, but shaming Zionists, no matter how irrelevant you may think the individual is, is very necessary.

Zionism has a strong foothold on both a small and large levels both within Judaism and outside Judaism that shapes a lot of f***ed up policy.

Gotta make it as uncomfortable as possible to even be associated with it.

krishna bound

1y

My point is that there is a difference between rebuking Zionism through its practitioners vs interrogating “would be Zionists”. Like sure I agree that publicly rebuking it and making it uncomfortable to prescribe to is meaningful but that doesn’t necessarily exist in parallel to praxis.
I know Alc is partially Israeli by ethnicity through his dad so it’s more valid to wonder than maybe certain other public figures, but it’s not like he’s Gal Godot.
People made a similar giant stink about 40 and the guy is insanely openly anti-Israel but wouldn’t take his repeated word as proof.
I also think there is a broad difference between having or facilitating s***ty beliefs and being in a position of power. Like yeah if people hold s***ty beliefs as revealed to you (openly or otherwise) they should be shamed for it but it’s not like he’s Netanyahu or in the IDF

Palestinian Oozi

1y

Why would anyone make a stink about 40? lol, he’s Arab and has been very clear for like a decade now…but that’s beside the point.

Having an israeli father, and then ignoring the topic of israel does open up valid speculation for people who care about The Alchemist given the artists he works with and their stances on Palestine (Earl, Mos Def, etc.) so it’s not a stretch for it to be something that people become curious of if those people follow his music. It’s not the same as the example you provided of just going and knocking on Jewish people’s doors in New York and asking if they are Zionists. Same curiosity exists with Khaled being Palestinian and ignoring the situation. Both examples are definitely open to ridicule on both sides of the coin no matter how futile it may seem.

The “he’s not Netanyahu” talking point is irrelevant and a strawman that no one is arguing towards. Also Netanyahu is a continuation of mainstream Zionist ideology that is at the heart of israel and dates back as far as Irgun and morphs into Likud etc. So yeah he’s not Netanyahu, but isolating Netanyahu like he’s some aberration to s***ty Zionist virtues really misses the point. He’s more so the culmination of a supremacy complex that has been generationally galvanized by everyone including the average Joe in israel.

krishna bound

1y

I get what you mean, I mean to be clear I think there’s a misunderstanding in me trying to excuse someone theoretically being a Zionist from annoyance at fixating on it arbitrarily w/on real material cause

The last point isn’t to be taken literally. It’s a point about how power structures work. When I meet someone from Sudan I don’t typically ask them if they support the forces that perpetuated the Darfor Massacre even though statistically the chances of them saying they do is very high if asked in the right manner, if they are actually from the country.

Regardless my point is mostly that it’s a futile exercise. When you focus on people who aren’t openly spreading messaging or directly upholding power structures you’re creating a counter-intuitive movement. This is seen repeatedly throughout history even with leftist and revolutionary leadership (as in they purposefully do not do this as to avoid the trap). Like sure, don’t get me wrong, people can wonder what his beliefs are but the chances of this affecting material outcomes vs the effort is better spent elsewhere. Anyone and their mother can organize against a random civilian, it might create an air of discomfort but it’s not the same as organization w material ends. In fact, if anything it ends up typically weakening the movement by detracting resources aimed at hitting actual key focal points. I understand this is just civilian discourse and not guerilla units but that’s all more to my points. This is why I typically roll my eyes at “kill all x” discourse. Like sure, I agree, maybe in a similar manner “kill all neonazis”. Like sure? I agree I guess but like under what terms because most neonazis are in reality just random people w hateful beliefs whose beliefs are probably irrelevant to any meaningful neonazis movement and probably would change their beliefs under any major geopolitical change if they aren’t already openly doing anything

Palestinian Oozi

1y

I personally, as a Palestinian, am not fixated on Alc or especially DJ Khaled (he’s a moron of the highest degree so it’s expected), so I agree that there are bigger fish to fry if that’s your point and once again most people would probably agree.

However, I disagree with it being futile and wasted energy for those who choose to and are invested in either’s music. For one, I imagine it doesn’t take much energy or resources to do so.

Music is a commodity and product for consumers as much as we tend to romanticize it. So just like any other commodity or product, a consumer can broach a topic with an entity/company and make a decision on whether to continue supporting it based on their response or inaction in Alc’s case.

As stated previously, both artists have contextual/material relevance to Palestine regardless. Alchemist said “israel will always be home for him.” That statement alone is enough to warrant questions from his audience that empathizes with Palestinians, which seems like there’s a healthy amount of, given the discourse. In fact, the statement itself on face value, whether he intended to or not, is very rich in zionist leanings. So he can walk back the statement or he can continue to ignore this topic and leave it to his audience to decide.

krishna bound

1y

If he does anything pro-Zionist f*** him but I don’t think anyone needs to lose brainpower or sleep trying to decipher if he is one from clues and whatever. Like there are tons of open Zionist celebrities to critique at the front of the line that I don’t think interrogating who is/isn’t some like crypto-Zionist matters a lot

NothingIs

1y

like i previously posted, only a zionist would perform in “tel aviv” and talk about how it “feels like home”

there is no deciphering or guesswork going on here

it’s what Alc himself has clearly stated

NothingIs

1y

like i previously posted, only a zionist would perform in “tel aviv” and talk about how it “feels like home”

there is no deciphering or guesswork going on here

it’s what Alc himself has clearly stated

krishna bound

1y

I think the discussion could have been ultra simplified if instead of a ton of posts wondering if he’s a Zionist or not someone just posted “he specifically said this so f*** him”

snowboyrari

1y

bro flouts BDS restrictions and calls Israel his home and ktt users be like "it is impossible to deign his true intentions"

🤡🤡🤡🤡

NothingIs

1y

the only people who were acting like it was ambiguous are the “two state solution” s***libs trying to act like there’s a future where everyone can just get along

krishna bound

1y

I read multiple pages and only saw people debating if he was/wasn’t like it was some mystery and this was in the last 3 recent threads on him. If he was just openly a Zionist why was there even an ambiguity to make a thread asking lmao