I will say I disagree with the music numbers being bad I think they were fine but they didn't elevate the movie that much, i guess maybe neutral, some usage of music was interesting in the movie but others were middling

But i did agree with the statement "im still glad this movie exists" just to have more discourse on the fleck character and just how miserable his life was, there was some honesty in this film that was really real and it was painful to watch. also interesting to see them try to take digs at the superfans of the OG movie.

But all of that is pretty much just talking points after the fact, the movie itself isn't really good.

thank god for gaga dropping that album so there's actually something good to salvage out of this moment lmao

The Joker Is Me

Would love to hear the music on IMAX speakers again

Moistcritikal does a good job of touching on how meaningless the message of this movie is in comparison to the 1st's, with using the example of Joker being (seemingly) raped by the guards and them getting no blowback and no one taking revenge for doing so

The story really does slam dunk on Fleck in the third act starting with Zazie Beets's character on the stand

i didn’t even register that that was a rape scene until i came back to read the thread after, idk why. I should’ve put that together but i was just confused. yeah he was pantless, wtf. it felt so detached and so did the killing of the other inmate, like misplaced, or something

For a movie I don’t think works, I feel pretty compelled to stick up for it. People are being unfair methinks.

I didn’t realize it either

my ass thought they was just being rough with him for talking s\*\*\*. Cause even earlier in the movie the same guard smacked upside the head for making a smartass comment. So I took it they were just beating him up while trying to get him in the showers to clean off the makeup. Didn’t hit me until I came into the thread :travsmh:

yeah exactly

people like this is why i got out of film a bit

I didn't think it was much, or really any bit, a problem with Joker 1, using the bits of DC iconography that they used. But this movie, this is the one where I kinda had mental clashes with DC usage.

Bc it's very useful at times. You get to see how the Arkham criminals in turn make those who guard them crazy as hell themselves ||. This take on Harley Quinn feels like a pretty fresh one to me (not a huge comic head). I think it's nice to see || Dent in general, although it feels shoehorned in with how little solid personality traits they ascribe to him. He could be literally anyone lol

As with most people's problems, Dent halfway commits to this notion as he does to others

I didn't pick it up until I saw Moist's review tbh. I could tell that it felt like something scarring bc it's effectively the milestone where "the Joker" persona shatters

There's really just no direct payoff for that moment other than the wink and the nod from the cop. I don't even think it's shot in a way that really lends itself to being a well implied rape scene. Anyway, the scene just gets lost in importance with the quick shift to the end of the trial and everything else that follows

40 million opening weekend?

Misunderstood kino

got out?

So I just watched like an hour ago.. and I kinda liked it? Surprised to say that I actually f***ed with this.. maybe it was going in with astronomically low expectations but to me a lot of the film works. The first Joker is one of my favorite films even knowing it’s flawed, I still loved it. I think what the first Joker accomplished is showing this tragic story and the result of untreated mental illness, and this film is basically the follow-up I would’ve expected had there been a second one. Now in that lies the issue in that I also firmly believe that this film really didn’t need to be made. But after seeing the reception, and how it also critiques those who took the wrong message away from the first makes me almost glad it was. I think Arthur is a complicated character, he did not do the things he did for the purpose of becoming a symbol, but yet he also grows in confidence in having a backing. Seeing this explored further in this film, especially through his romance with Harley, really made for an interesting premise. I even enjoyed the musical numbers, I can’t really think of any that I found grating or unenjoyable. I thought they actually served purpose in basically being expressions of emotion, which is honestly not far fetched for a musical. I thought Joaquin was great as usual and so was Gaga, who I thought had a substantial amount of screen time compared to what I saw online. I guess my issues lie more with how compared to the first, there isn’t really a lot of interesting things going on setting wise. It mainly flips between the prison and the courtroom, but it also made me appreciate when a musical number would give way for a bright and exciting setting. I think there’s definitely controversial choices made regarding what happens to Joker in the movie, but both kind of worked for me. More so for the ending than the former. Honestly I think had it had more a more thrilling storyline it wouldn’t be getting the reception it has. I do see something good in this, but it doesn’t come close to touching the first film for me. But hey, for something I thought I’d hate I can’t say I’m too upset.

7/10

Someone is gonna make a kick ass Arthur Fleck one movie fan edit of both

Hoping there are deleted scenes of the imaginary musical numbers because the iconic looking ones should've went longer

I don’t follow film numbers like at all, (not even music that much either) is that supposed to be good or bad. Gonna assume not good at all lol

it's true!

Well considering that:
A. The first one opened to $96 million on a $60 million budget, ultimately went to make $1 billion worldwide
B. This one had a $200 million budget
C. Weekend grosses are only going down from here

It's bad