Spartacus is a work for hire, rly more of a Kirk Douglas film. it's like a still alright if dated period epic, just don't expect a Kubrick film from it tbh. imo it's very whatever.

Lolita is essential though. for my money that's more than Paths of Glory the point in his filmography where you can see him come into his own as a filmmaker and is imo his first little masterpiece before his first major one with Strangelove.

much like the novel it's still very much up for debate how successful the film is at making its point that the relationship in the film is abusive, but this ambiguity is also where it draws a lot of power from and it not being moralistic and hard to read is exactly what makes it more mature than PoG, imo.

The Killing is a masterpiece

But I appreciate the input

i have only watched the shining and full metal jacket but he is my favorite director as i have watched so many documentaries about him and interviews

I would say that's his first great film and I'll also take it over Paths of Glory any day, to me it's overall still a fairly classic genre picture and not quite yet what makes Kubrick unique tho

def somewhere among the best classic noirs but it might not even crack my top 20 tbh

I don't think there's anything comparable to its pace from that time. That movie plays like something much more modern. Nothing I've seen yet has matched it anyway.

hmm it does feel modern but tbh the best classic noir generally feels quite modern for the time going back to the 40s. I'd say especially Wilder, Lang, Welles.. there's Asphalt Jungle, D.O.A., Laura, Odds Against Tomorrow. if you even care I could put together a whole list. I watched and researched it a lot because I had a class in uni about noir.

in Killing you do get a sense of Kubrick's mastery with the camera already for sure but it's still not overall one of my fav noirs, I could give it another rewatch some time tho it's been a couple years again

I've seen all the peak Wilder. I mentioned Killer's Kiss sounding like it was influenced by Lady from Shanghai. I've seen Asphalt Jungle and Laura. I've seen the French heist films of that time as well like Rafifi, Bob the Gangster, Le Trou.

I'm pretty well versed in that era. I've read my share of Chandler and Cain. I've read Ross MacDonald and Elliot Chaze. I've read Chester Himes. James Ellroy for a belated take on it. Lethem's magic realist approach.

There are movies I like just as much. Big Wilder fan obviously. As far as detective noir goes, Kiss Me Deadly is an all timer. Not too many rank up there with The Killing though. Not for the same reasons either. It's a true ensemble film at a breakneck pace. Could watch it once a year like it's The Departed.

Always interested in recs though. Just watched The Big Combo and No Way Out last weekend.

Touch of Evil

Touch of Evil isn't cycling through POVs from one scene to the next. The Killing might as well be Soderbergh's Oceans Eleven.

what do you mean exactly by pace?

Pace, density, and structure is probably more apt. 84 minutes, a half dozen POV characters, and a nonlinear timeline that isn't predicated on flashbacks. Special movie!

No but it was doing its own very interesting things and feels similarly modern

I don't think there's any crime or noir prior to it that utilizes non-linear storytelling. most of it is flashbacks as you say

however sacha guitry used it excellently in 1936 for his film story of a cheat, but it's not the same genre of film. i think it's the first I've ever seen tbh

the set-up (1949) and crime wave (1954) both have a raw feel & strong pacing with a relatively short runtime. not a second is wasted, so in that sense they're much like the killing although the set-up is not a heist film
the latter also stars hayden (tim carey and charles bronson too),

most if not all of the heist scenes in crime wave were shot on location as well which might be one of the first in hollywood. gun crazy is ahead of it by 4 years but it's a poverty row film

also if you haven't watched odds against tomorrow which beflygelt recommended, you should definitely peep it. i think its a singular film and a gem of american crime

Already seen Gun Crazy and The Set Up. They wouldn't even come to mind tbh. Neither in scope nor scale. I'd probably look to war films or westerns for comparables.

I've seen stuff from Toth and Wise. Great directors.

yh that one's shockingly modern tbh, rly need to see that new-ish restoration

barry lyndon is my s***

still havent seen spartacus, paths of glory, killers kiss and fear & desire. doing a whole marathon when I cop the Criterion boxset

It's immaculate

Just watched Paths Of Glory wooooow

Full Metal Jacket overhated

2001
Barry Lyndon
A Clockwork Orange
The Shining
Full Metal Jacket
Dr. Strangelove
Eyes Wide Shut