he didn't really produce blonde himself though. he hasn't really produced anything himself until the blonded LSD instrumental according to credits. he has production credits on his s*** but so does Beyoncé and she doesn't produce anything bro. and yes he is having music written for him (not ALL of it, I don't know how much but at least some of it), that's why there are literally multiple writers and producers credited on every song on Blonde outside of good guy. but i agree that that discussion is a dead end, yo yo ma hasn't composed anything worth listening to even if he can play violin amazingly. that was never the point of my post

I mean PND does produce his own s*** and others
That warrants some respect artistically

Collaboration was literally the heart of jazz. Just because one guy is writing, one guy is singing, and another guy is on the keyboard doesn't make music more or less authentic.

You're just obsessed with this sports GOAT MJ vs Lebron bullshit. Least interesting argument ever. Who cares

majority of the music I listen to is jazz, you're not gonna tell me about jazz lol. and I literally don't give a f*** about sports so your post is so misguided. and your argument falls apart because in a jazz band everyone is given requisite credit if the band isn't already credited as a band/tet, whereas a Frank Ocean album is considered a Frank Ocean album, not a Frank Ocean x Michael Uzowuru x Malay Ho x Ommas Keith álbum. jazz musicians also have no trouble crediting others unlike Frank who would rather pay Keith millions than credit him as a writer on his s***

So I told you about jazz and all you said is "I listen to jazz"

Where'd your 5,000 word wall texts go

Bro was one sentence away from saying “I am jazz.”

Man was on his knees for Pharrell and Tyler. More like j***

majority of the music I listen to is j***, you're not gonna tell me about j***. I am j***.

dude didn't even read past the first sentence of what i wrote im happy im gonna have a lot of bozos to block by the end of this ig

Exactly. How we all interpret music is entirely subjective, so "over/under rated" can never truly be measured objectively.

The skeleton key to Supermodel's posting ITT is j***

i can respect that but music quality wise i couldn’t say they’re close

exactly. i personally said at the end of my first post that he was overrated because of the credit he's assigned, not because of the actual quality of his work. if you think blonde is the best album ever that's fine. i would advise you to listen to more music before saying that but at the end of the day it's just someone's opinion. i personally love channel orange and endless and put endless above blonde but that's just my opinion. I would never try to force my ranking on someone else

I feel like @supermodel made some interesting points about how the creative process differs from artist to artist, and the inherent merit that exists to someone who is more proficient.

@iamiguel 's point is more about how the final product is appreciated by the community at large. That's also an interesting topic to expand upon.

I think the convo between you two is a little disconnected. There's def no need to insult each other, especially since you're generating interesting points.

Bro made a sensible point ^^^

Him and Kendrick are tied for first place

Never heard this man make anything as good as Helluva Price by Gunna

You ain't wrong if you right (You ain't wrong if you right)

precisely, and it’s the same thing with Beyonce too

beyonce uses her connections and overall taste + talent to make hits and classic albums, sure it’s less impressive to use an entire team to make an album (…i guess, music is a collaborative process, always has been) but i don’t think that really matters provided the music is great (which it pretty much usually is)

frank ocean may not be as good of a musician as Tyler in terms of technical skill + even music theory, but he clearly understands his vision and how to put together sounds to tell a story and compose an atmosphere, that beats out any sort of technical capability that any “true” musician has imho

it doesn’t matter how great you are at an instrument, if you cannot play it in a musically satisfying way or utilize it to connect with an audience, it’s essentially chaff

y’all just be on here whiting it up as per usual

it’s amazing how beyonce garners all this unprecedented criticism for using a team for her music, when pop historically has always been an extremely collaborative process

y’all literally just poke holes whenever you see fit, and sweep everything else under when it doesn’t fit your narrative

PND and Frank both legends in their respective lanes I will not entertain otherwise

i don’t even understand why i get on here to defend beyonce knowing this site is filled with suburbanite Redditor cacs that get their taste from TikTok or RapCaviar

i borderline miss the RYMers, at least they actually discussed the music instead of baiting all day