1:34

So they had to be murdered? Like they couldn’t have all been deported or put in camps or re education camps? Again I’m hairping on this because you said yourself you would have also killed them

You understand that the people can just overpower them and put them in camps or something right?

This isn’t about the logistics of how we’re goung to do it or anything, this is about you having more understanding for the murder of a billionaire landlord vs the murder of a murderer. If they’re both humans, they can both change under the right circumstances

You mean landlords or criminals

Landlords

I mean I'm sure you're not claiming they were all executed lol, at least I hope

I’m not, my argument is that they don’t deserve to die more than murderers

Absolutely disagree with u there

If you’re argument is that murderers and rapists are products of their environments where factors like poverty and abuse diminishes moral capacity, why can’t you make the same leap for billionaires being a product of their upbringing

That's not the case I'm making.

The more important distinction that should be made is that individual criminals are not an oppresive force that actively resist changes to make the world a better place, unlike landlords, especially the ones in China back then.

There have been massive literacy and public health programs in capitalist countries, so I don’t see why mao doing something right in that regard should be seen as some point for socialism

It's not seen as "some point for socialism." It's seen as a good thing that was achieved by their system.

You're talking like the Chinese party sat down and said "Okay boys, how can we really stick it to Western capitalists? Hmmm... I got it! We can teach our people how to read and improve their healthcare. Communists - 1, Capitalists - 0. Muahahah!"

They had a newly liberated mass of millions who were ignorant and suffering. Literacy and healthcare were necessities. No system could work without improving those two things; it was pivotal to their nation's progression. When Mao did it, the only "point" for them was people realizing "Hey, it's not just capitalism that can do this." But I'm sure that thought was the furthest thing from the mindsc of Chinese farmers who could actually improve their livelihood for a change.

The poverty rate took a massive downturn in the decades after China opened up its economy, so you can hardly attribute chinas current success to mao. Again, the industrialization could’ve occurred in a free market

See above.

"We know this cause Communism"

Airtight stuff. Those inefficiencies couldn't possibly have anything to do with the countryside's dispersement of farmland due to centuries of a society formed by a large scattering of farming villages across it — villages and farmers which had just been under the boot of an elitist policing culture.

"Chinese government learned from their mistakes and massively replanned how they would conduct agriculture"

Aside from how this frames a national revolution involving millions upon millions not getting everything perfect as some kind of massive red flag...Are you implying that these "massive replans" has been some kind of commercial agricultural 180 miracle? Cause uhhh...

He was better than the feudal guys and colonists but his policies restricted the movement of the rural masses and neglected social services for them in favor of the urban populations iron rice bowl.

I basically said this in one of my first responses to you on Mao.

The liberealization in decades afterwards have done far more to raise the living standards of the Chinese people than maos policies

On the contrary, the significant increase in affluent Chinese citizens over the past 30 years has been a cause for concern because of all the new demands and cultural changes from that booming class that have been (and still have to be) satisfied in such short time is a major stress on all sectors of commercial production. And we have witnessed in it a reflection of American society's transition to one based on services, leaving behind many who are out of their reach. (So much for "Mao's policies leaving behind rural people", amiright?)

But they are actively making the world a worse place for the families of friends of the over 450,000 people they kill in a year

A landlord once told my mom.to piss outside rather than fix our plumbing

We make no excuses for the terror

Yes but the recidivism rate for murderers is a lot lower than landlords if you know what I mean

There's a reason reeducation camps (a laughable trivialization of what they actually were under Mao btw) didn't take off until later when social collectivity was stronger.

It's the same reason why American abolitionists couldn't just waltz across the south rounding up plantation owners and slave traders, and instead had to go to f***ing war where over million died.

It was a vast, unindustrialized expanse of land littered with small communities of mostly uneducated and impoverished people. There was no central hub of communication in the countryside. The units sent from village to village to reverse the landlord-peasant power structures often told the newly empowered peasants to take responsibility for other villages close to them, while Mao's units continued further on.

I didn’t say mao only did it to stick it to capitalist, I’m saying socialists bring it up to defend socialism, stop arguing with people you just made up

Isn’t it a coincidence that these inefficiencies just so happen to often show up in countries with single party governments and conwtitutions that reference Marxism-Leninism

There hasn’t been a great famine in China since the 20th century, no matter how bad weather conditions have been. So yeah, I think we can blame the intensity of the last one on man made decisions

You understand that life for the poor in these more affluent service based economies is still better than life for the poor in third world agriculture and industry based countries right? The facts are modern China and America have done more to improve the living standards of their people than Maoist China or any other communist country has

If it was simply illegal to own housing, I’m sure the recidivism rate for landlords would be approaching 0

China was making it illegal and the landlords resisted, that's the entire point

And you believe they couldn’t have been imprisoned or otherwise forcibly removed from the population and stripped of their power in any way other than killing them

Some of them could, but you must remember that many of these killings were the spontaneous acts of violence by the peasants that they were oppressing.

And these landlords weren't just some guys who owned a house or two. They were brutal oppressors who often murdered and raped their victims, so I'm sorry for not being too concerned with peasants retaliating against them in a violent manner

Idek the point you’re trying to make. The bottoms line is landlords could have been stripped of the power and authority by masses but instead they chose to kill them. I’m not here out of sadness for the landlords, but more because I know if there were mass killings of murderers and rapists by mobs you wouldn’t exactly have the same defenses for it

If you think they deserved to die then go ahead, I mean they hired violent gangs to abuse and terrorize the population so not much sympathy from me. My problem is that some of the same guys who are so cool with landlords and billionaires being killed all of a sudden wanna play defense for guys that tortured and murdered other innocent people like don’t they all deserve to go

I would say that there's a difference between a revolutionary regime resorting to authoritarian means to prevent being overthrown by much more developed nations and landlords using violence to instill fear in their peasants so they won't get the idea to fight against their exploitation.

Isn’t it a coincidence that these inefficiencies just so happen to often show up in countries with single party governments and conwtitutions that reference Marxism-Leninism

Yeah i'd say it is a coincidence that two of the biggest countries on Earth in land size and population also happened to not have seamless revolutions at a time when America was still rooting its population into new territory, putting vagrants in prison en masse, and welcoming immigrants from China and other Eastern countries with open arms of racism and abandonment that led to the vast majority of female Chinese immigrants becoming prostitutes

I forget, did America have one or two political parties during chattel slavery and the genocide of first peoples?

There hasn’t been a great famine in China since the 20th century, no matter how bad weather conditions have been. So yeah, I think we can blame the intensity of the last one on man made decisions

All you got from that was "bad weather conditions"? Bro.

You understand that life for the poor in these more affluent service based economies is still better than life for the poor in third world agriculture and industry based countries right? The facts are modern China and America have done more to improve the living standards of their people than Maoist China or any other communist country has

deep inhale

BOIIIIIIIIIIIII